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I think I'm the minority that really values in-person events. The best experiences for me didn't happened by watching the talks and sessions, but in casual conv

I think I'm the minority that really values in-person events. The best experiences for me didn't happened by watching the talks and sessions, but in casual conversations in the corridors and common areas. This is very hard to replicate with online events.

mucholove 6y ago
I love in person events. Online events give me loads of fatigue. In-person events energize me. The backroom conversations are why they’re great. At the beginning I was always into the speakers. Later I realized they were really a gimmick to bring us together. Clubhouse captures some of this in person magic. There was also a book club that was pretty good. Slate I think it’s called. Let’s hope Apple can capture this. :)
- Razengan 6y ago
  > Online events give me loads of fatigue. In-person events energize me. Completely opposite for me, and I bet other introverts or people with social anxiety/low social mana.
  - Workaccount2 6y ago
    Small talk and the like is tiring, but getting to talk about your pet project with others who grasp it's depth is a rare and exciting thing, and there is no denying that in person communication flows the best.
  - 0xffff2 6y ago
    Speak for yourself. I'm not so much an introvert as a near-total loner. I find in-person conferences incredibly interesting and valuable for the ability to spend a week nerding out on technical topics with new people. Online conferences do absolutely nothing for me.
    - skeeter2020 6y ago
      I've described them as a geek spa or fantasy nerd camp. It doesn't have much to do with the act of delivering talks in-person on online; that's the the mechanism for a very special type of social interaction that is hard (or impossible) to replicate online.
  - y2bd 6y ago
    Another socially anxious introvert here. I miss in person events so much, digital conventions don’t compare even remotely (please don’t talk to me though).
- fnordpiglet 6y ago
  This is the one thing technology can’t solve in the discussion - humans are different. I find conferences intensely draining. I love people but I don’t like crowds - I grew up in the remote mountains. But I realize I’m not everyone and I recognize that hybrid events and work places are probably the best way to ensure everyone gets to work and participate in the way they feel most effective. I am glad that the extrovert hegemony has been cracked this year, but I also realize as humans we should figure out how to assemble and collaborate in a way that is most comfortable for everyone, then everyone will get so much more out of the interaction.
plorkyeran 6y ago
I like the idea of in-person events, but I was never able to get a pass and so missed out on all of the actual value outside of the short windows I was able to borrow someone else's. The online-only format has been a significant improvement for me as a result as some of that valuable side-chatter has moved to places I'm not excluded from.
eddieroger 6y ago
I enjoyed that part the year I got to go to WWDC, but the reality of the event is that's the most exclusive part given how few people are able to attend, and I'd gladly trade that for the ability to go without fear of the ticket lottery, and saving the money on travel, lodging and food isn't bad either. For local meetups, I definitely want to get back to in-person, but equally welcome an online WWDC for the foreseeable future.
Shivetya 6y ago
I love them but let me be honest, West coast US events don't work for me or many others and focusing on an online event opens it up to far more people. However I see the benefit for having a local audience for those who can make it there but we are still a year off before travel resumes to normal levels if not 2023. However being such world wide company perhaps they will in the future have similar events or simultaneous events across the world.
- dev_tty01 6y ago
  It would be cool to have satellite mini-conferences around the world for the purpose of getting devs access to Apple engineers. It could be an adjunct to the formal online presentations that we all see.
  - Razengan 6y ago
    > for the purpose of getting devs access to Apple engineers. How about just getting engineers to occasionally participate on their own developer forums, and settle some of the edge questions that have been waiting for answers for years.
dev_tty01 6y ago
I get that, provided you can actually get a ticket. For the vast majority of developers who can't get there, the online format provided much better talks than the on-stage versions that remote devs usually see.
m3kw9 6y ago
The casual talks and connections made when lining up can be great, but it feels oddly inefficient. However is hard to make that connection virtually even if apple did something online to help this
- ghaff 6y ago
  >even if apple did something online to help this I've been pretty involved with online events over the past year. The formal part of the conferences have gone pretty well. (TBH, even when I'm attending a big event physically I'll often watch the keynotes streaming rather than cram into a conference center with thousands of my closest friends.) But chat, virtual booths, and any sort of attempt at serendipity have mostly been big fat failures.
ghaff 6y ago
I don't think you're in the minority. But I do think a lot of companies are recognizing the value of hybrid events. I at least dipped into 2 or 3 events last year that I couldn't have justified normally (this one and Adobe MAX). And that's coming from someone who normally attends/speaks at a lot of events.
johannes1234321 6y ago
As a presenter I prefer in-person events by far. Virtual events are so much speaking into the void with no feedback. Sometimes not even certainty whether connection or such might have been broken. Audience helps to see if jokes work and if audience keeps up or is getting bored as i go too slow. Also in a virtual event there is the risk of preproduction a talk, with artificial perfection. As an participant for me the "hallway track" often is the most interesting, where I get into random discussions and run into people In otherwise rarely meet.
- ghaff 6y ago
  Out of necessity, I've gotten better at recording videos over the past year. Certain things are easier with video; I basically have a teleprompter in some form. But, yeah, I'd much rather talk to a live audience.
- fnordpiglet 6y ago
  I feel like these issues are caused by a lack of sophistication on the part of the conference organizer. Everyone has cameras and microphones bristling on their spyware sensor packs in their pocket let alone their computers. If you can’t see and interact with your audience, that’s just a failure of integrating all those devices in a way you can benefit from. It feels like as an engineer we should be leaning into the challenges the situation presents and finding clever solutions. Maybe emitting earth ending emissions to move your sack of mostly water to physically collocate so you can see the actual photons reflecting off someone’s face rather than a high fidelity reproduction just feels wasteful, no? These are legit gripes but they also don’t feel like a P=NP problem
  - kergonath 6y ago
    Do you have any idea what an audience of 50 people "giving feedback" on Zoom look like? You cannot play with the audience because half of them are mute, there is a constant lag between the moment you say anything and the moment you get their response, there's always the arsehole with a microphone too loud, or the idiot with an echo. Presenting remotely in real-time is a pain in the arse, and sucks everything that's enjoyable out of making presentations.
jacob420dad 6y ago
Minority?!
- ghaff 6y ago
  I don't think it's a minority but you will see variations on several themes whenever the subject of conferences comes up: - It's a boondoggle and I'd never approve the expense (OK they are but not just a boondoggle :-)) - It's inefficient - I'm an introvert I don't agree but those are opinions.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
breck 6y ago
The knowledge and initial introductions in online events can lead to hugely positive outcomes in the future, so in terms of ROI I think online events are probably far superior, but when I think to my top 100 memorable experiences I've had at events, not a single one of them took place online. Sure, I've met plenty of people that I later became friends/collaborators with in person, but all the memorable stuff happens later in person. Just a few recent off the top of my head: - Paddleboard breakouts at East Meets West - Asking Vinod a question about next-gen registers at Program Synthesis Conference - Animated discussion about cpu design over beers post conference in SF - Talking to a startup about IOT management on the roof of an Accel event And some ones from 10+ years ago: - When I was a college student sitting on a folding chair and chatting with a nice woman about the startups pitching at TechCrunch40 (turned out to be M Mayer) - Drew pitching me on Dropbox before launch in Cambridge (boring, I thought) - Nate pitching me AirBedAndBreakfast in Mountain View (loved the idea from the get go) The only things that have come close to being memorable online were some recent Teamflow ice breaker type events we did at Our World in Data around the virtual campfire.
- fnordpiglet 6y ago
  > - Paddleboard breakouts at East Meets West Can be done as online gaming events > - Asking Vinod a question about next-gen registers at Program Synthesis Conference Can be done using a microphone and camera attached to your device > - Animated discussion about cpu design over beers post conference in SF Animated conversations can be done via microphone and video > - Talking to a startup about IOT management on the roof of an Accel event Can be done as a vendor breakout with a virtual background of a roof > - When I was a college student sitting on a folding chair and chatting with a nice woman about the startups pitching at TechCrunch40 (turned out to be M Mayer) You can always sit in a folding chair and chat with M Mayer in a slack room for the breakout > - Drew pitching me on Dropbox before launch in Cambridge (boring, I thought) Drew also has a microphone and camera I bet, but it probably won’t make him less boring > - Nate pitching me AirBedAndBreakfast in Mountain View (loved the idea from the get go) Who would ever want to actually go to Mountain View? (N.b., I lived there for many years)
  - 6y ago
bjohnson225 6y ago
WWDC is different from a typical conference. The vast majority of viewers for them will be online regardless, so it would make total sense for Apple to optimise for the online audience (and after all, the keynote is basically a piece of marketing), but I don't think that indicates anything for a standard conference. Personally, as someone who now happily works remote 100% of the time, I would be more inclined to attend a local in-person conference than ever before.
grishka 6y ago
An online conference for me is as good as a lack of a conference. This "like real thing except you stay home" doesn't work. At an IRL conference, you're able to focus on a talk much easier than when it's an online stream. And as others said, the networking and the overall atmosphere are of extreme importance.
skeeter2020 6y ago
I haven't been to an in-person event that didn't record all sessions in more than a decade, so from my perspective you get the huge value of hallway interaction and face-to-face components, plus end up watching the good and most impactful videos online anyways. Online social events are neither social or eventful, so I can't wait to get back to in-person.
manmal 6y ago
For those who cannot spend 5k and a work week on a conference, the fully online format is way superior though.

mucholove 6y ago

I love in person events. Online events give me loads of fatigue. In-person events energize me. The backroom conversations are why they’re great. At the beginning I was always into the speakers. Later I realized they were really a gimmick to bring us together. Clubhouse captures some of this in person magic. There was also a book club that was pretty good. Slate I think it’s called. Let’s hope Apple can capture this. :)

Razengan 6y ago
> Online events give me loads of fatigue. In-person events energize me. Completely opposite for me, and I bet other introverts or people with social anxiety/low social mana.
- Workaccount2 6y ago
  Small talk and the like is tiring, but getting to talk about your pet project with others who grasp it's depth is a rare and exciting thing, and there is no denying that in person communication flows the best.
- 0xffff2 6y ago
  Speak for yourself. I'm not so much an introvert as a near-total loner. I find in-person conferences incredibly interesting and valuable for the ability to spend a week nerding out on technical topics with new people. Online conferences do absolutely nothing for me.
  - skeeter2020 6y ago
    I've described them as a geek spa or fantasy nerd camp. It doesn't have much to do with the act of delivering talks in-person on online; that's the the mechanism for a very special type of social interaction that is hard (or impossible) to replicate online.
- y2bd 6y ago
  Another socially anxious introvert here. I miss in person events so much, digital conventions don’t compare even remotely (please don’t talk to me though).
fnordpiglet 6y ago
This is the one thing technology can’t solve in the discussion - humans are different. I find conferences intensely draining. I love people but I don’t like crowds - I grew up in the remote mountains. But I realize I’m not everyone and I recognize that hybrid events and work places are probably the best way to ensure everyone gets to work and participate in the way they feel most effective. I am glad that the extrovert hegemony has been cracked this year, but I also realize as humans we should figure out how to assemble and collaborate in a way that is most comfortable for everyone, then everyone will get so much more out of the interaction.

plorkyeran 6y ago

I like the idea of in-person events, but I was never able to get a pass and so missed out on all of the actual value outside of the short windows I was able to borrow someone else's. The online-only format has been a significant improvement for me as a result as some of that valuable side-chatter has moved to places I'm not excluded from.

eddieroger 6y ago

I enjoyed that part the year I got to go to WWDC, but the reality of the event is that's the most exclusive part given how few people are able to attend, and I'd gladly trade that for the ability to go without fear of the ticket lottery, and saving the money on travel, lodging and food isn't bad either. For local meetups, I definitely want to get back to in-person, but equally welcome an online WWDC for the foreseeable future.

Shivetya 6y ago

I love them but let me be honest, West coast US events don't work for me or many others and focusing on an online event opens it up to far more people. However I see the benefit for having a local audience for those who can make it there but we are still a year off before travel resumes to normal levels if not 2023. However being such world wide company perhaps they will in the future have similar events or simultaneous events across the world.

dev_tty01 6y ago
It would be cool to have satellite mini-conferences around the world for the purpose of getting devs access to Apple engineers. It could be an adjunct to the formal online presentations that we all see.
- Razengan 6y ago
  > for the purpose of getting devs access to Apple engineers. How about just getting engineers to occasionally participate on their own developer forums, and settle some of the edge questions that have been waiting for answers for years.

dev_tty01 6y ago

I get that, provided you can actually get a ticket. For the vast majority of developers who can't get there, the online format provided much better talks than the on-stage versions that remote devs usually see.

m3kw9 6y ago

The casual talks and connections made when lining up can be great, but it feels oddly inefficient. However is hard to make that connection virtually even if apple did something online to help this

ghaff 6y ago
>even if apple did something online to help this I've been pretty involved with online events over the past year. The formal part of the conferences have gone pretty well. (TBH, even when I'm attending a big event physically I'll often watch the keynotes streaming rather than cram into a conference center with thousands of my closest friends.) But chat, virtual booths, and any sort of attempt at serendipity have mostly been big fat failures.

ghaff 6y ago

I don't think you're in the minority. But I do think a lot of companies are recognizing the value of hybrid events. I at least dipped into 2 or 3 events last year that I couldn't have justified normally (this one and Adobe MAX). And that's coming from someone who normally attends/speaks at a lot of events.

johannes1234321 6y ago

As a presenter I prefer in-person events by far. Virtual events are so much speaking into the void with no feedback. Sometimes not even certainty whether connection or such might have been broken. Audience helps to see if jokes work and if audience keeps up or is getting bored as i go too slow. Also in a virtual event there is the risk of preproduction a talk, with artificial perfection. As an participant for me the "hallway track" often is the most interesting, where I get into random discussions and run into people In otherwise rarely meet.

ghaff 6y ago
Out of necessity, I've gotten better at recording videos over the past year. Certain things are easier with video; I basically have a teleprompter in some form. But, yeah, I'd much rather talk to a live audience.
fnordpiglet 6y ago
I feel like these issues are caused by a lack of sophistication on the part of the conference organizer. Everyone has cameras and microphones bristling on their spyware sensor packs in their pocket let alone their computers. If you can’t see and interact with your audience, that’s just a failure of integrating all those devices in a way you can benefit from. It feels like as an engineer we should be leaning into the challenges the situation presents and finding clever solutions. Maybe emitting earth ending emissions to move your sack of mostly water to physically collocate so you can see the actual photons reflecting off someone’s face rather than a high fidelity reproduction just feels wasteful, no? These are legit gripes but they also don’t feel like a P=NP problem
- kergonath 6y ago
  Do you have any idea what an audience of 50 people "giving feedback" on Zoom look like? You cannot play with the audience because half of them are mute, there is a constant lag between the moment you say anything and the moment you get their response, there's always the arsehole with a microphone too loud, or the idiot with an echo. Presenting remotely in real-time is a pain in the arse, and sucks everything that's enjoyable out of making presentations.

jacob420dad 6y ago

Minority?!

ghaff 6y ago
I don't think it's a minority but you will see variations on several themes whenever the subject of conferences comes up: - It's a boondoggle and I'd never approve the expense (OK they are but not just a boondoggle :-)) - It's inefficient - I'm an introvert I don't agree but those are opinions.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

breck 6y ago

The knowledge and initial introductions in online events can lead to hugely positive outcomes in the future, so in terms of ROI I think online events are probably far superior, but when I think to my top 100 memorable experiences I've had at events, not a single one of them took place online. Sure, I've met plenty of people that I later became friends/collaborators with in person, but all the memorable stuff happens later in person. Just a few recent off the top of my head: - Paddleboard breakouts at East Meets West - Asking Vinod a question about next-gen registers at Program Synthesis Conference - Animated discussion about cpu design over beers post conference in SF - Talking to a startup about IOT management on the roof of an Accel event And some ones from 10+ years ago: - When I was a college student sitting on a folding chair and chatting with a nice woman about the startups pitching at TechCrunch40 (turned out to be M Mayer) - Drew pitching me on Dropbox before launch in Cambridge (boring, I thought) - Nate pitching me AirBedAndBreakfast in Mountain View (loved the idea from the get go) The only things that have come close to being memorable online were some recent Teamflow ice breaker type events we did at Our World in Data around the virtual campfire.

fnordpiglet 6y ago
> - Paddleboard breakouts at East Meets West Can be done as online gaming events > - Asking Vinod a question about next-gen registers at Program Synthesis Conference Can be done using a microphone and camera attached to your device > - Animated discussion about cpu design over beers post conference in SF Animated conversations can be done via microphone and video > - Talking to a startup about IOT management on the roof of an Accel event Can be done as a vendor breakout with a virtual background of a roof > - When I was a college student sitting on a folding chair and chatting with a nice woman about the startups pitching at TechCrunch40 (turned out to be M Mayer) You can always sit in a folding chair and chat with M Mayer in a slack room for the breakout > - Drew pitching me on Dropbox before launch in Cambridge (boring, I thought) Drew also has a microphone and camera I bet, but it probably won’t make him less boring > - Nate pitching me AirBedAndBreakfast in Mountain View (loved the idea from the get go) Who would ever want to actually go to Mountain View? (N.b., I lived there for many years)
- 6y ago

bjohnson225 6y ago

WWDC is different from a typical conference. The vast majority of viewers for them will be online regardless, so it would make total sense for Apple to optimise for the online audience (and after all, the keynote is basically a piece of marketing), but I don't think that indicates anything for a standard conference. Personally, as someone who now happily works remote 100% of the time, I would be more inclined to attend a local in-person conference than ever before.

grishka 6y ago

An online conference for me is as good as a lack of a conference. This "like real thing except you stay home" doesn't work. At an IRL conference, you're able to focus on a talk much easier than when it's an online stream. And as others said, the networking and the overall atmosphere are of extreme importance.

skeeter2020 6y ago

I haven't been to an in-person event that didn't record all sessions in more than a decade, so from my perspective you get the huge value of hallway interaction and face-to-face components, plus end up watching the good and most impactful videos online anyways. Online social events are neither social or eventful, so I can't wait to get back to in-person.

manmal 6y ago

For those who cannot spend 5k and a work week on a conference, the fully online format is way superior though.