4 ms·

Misdemeanor Prosecution

31 points by hirundo 6y ago

maxcan 6y ago
deleted
- PeterisP 6y ago
  Given their experimental setup (looking at the effect of randmly assigned ADAs who more or less likely to prosecute), it seems reasonable to assume that any such hidden variables would be evenly distributed among the randomly assigned ADAs.
sesuximo 6y ago
Seems like tuning this carefully would have good ROI... and be ethical
quaffapint 6y ago
The problem with 'misdemeanors' is they sound innocent enough when you take the plea, but we have a family member who got an undeserved misdemeanor back when he was 18 and after applying to job after job, no one will hire him because he simply has a misdemeanor. Even things like doordash or instacart - they told him no because he had a misdemeanor. Talking to the lawyer and all they said is to try to get a pardon in 10 years. So for 10 years because he was told a misdemeanor is nothing 'big' he won't be able to work unless he gets a job from a family friend or something. Then he can pay a lawyer to get a possible pardon? The system doesn't care about people like him.
- istjohn 6y ago
  Here in Ohio, a first time misdemeanor can generally be expunged after 2 years.
- lupire 6y ago
  Note that this is a problem because there are more people than jobs, so the "least favored people" can be an unemployable underclass. It wouldn't be so bad if we had a more robust work economy (fewer hours per worker, more workers) or a solid "employer of last resort".
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  Tons of people who plea bargained on domestic violence charges and DUIs they could have fought back when those were no big deal (because why spend $500 on a lawyer to beat a $200 fine nobody cares about) wound up getting screwed out of their established careers decades later when those charges became big deals.
- artificialLimbs 6y ago
  There may be a free (non-profit) legal clinic that can help him get the charges expunged (or sealed, whatever they're calling it these days). Here's one from my state: https://arlegalaid.org/ https://arlegalaid.org/ Might also look into getting a governor's pardon. I think it's called executive clemency. I also spoke with one of my local congresscritters and he was a great help in getting some of my ridiculous small charges sealed. This is another reason to NOT raise the minimum wage, and instead consider abolishing it. If people can work for a little bit of money instead of nothing while they build their reputations, it can go far.
smnrchrds 6y ago
Fun fact: if you are a permanent resident of the United States, not carrying your permanent resident card (green card) with you at all times is a misdemeanor.
lupire 6y ago
The blog author inches toward an idea of alternative punishment for misdemeanors. What if you could trade a day or week in prison for lash of a cane, like in Singapore? How about prison terms served 1 day a week? It would save money, be less invasive, but less profitable for the incarceration industry. Long-term weekday (workday) detention is a terrible punishment for anyone. It should only be used for prevention when needed to keep a violent menace away from victims.
- marcus_holmes 6y ago
  I would not take any examples from Singapore if what you want is a just and equitable society.
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
This analysis isn't very helpful without knowing what percentage of misdemeanors in Suffolk county are a) revenue offenses where they have an official unwritten policy of letting anyone plead down to a lesser charge if they don't context the lesser charge or b) contempt of cop/state/authority type violations. People who get caught up in the former are normal everyday law abiding people and are unlikely to rack up a future felony. People caught up in the latter either learn to step in line or move west/north (a lot of behavior that would have you in handcuffs in Suffolk county would just get you a stern warning in other counties). Obviously a criminal record hurts the chances of getting ahead in life and at the margins decreased ability to get ahead does seem to correlate with crime but measuring how much is rife with confounding factors.
gremlinsinc 6y ago
Wouldn't being "brought up on charges" then not being prosecuted potentially "scare" the perpetrator, or alert them (if they didn't already know) that what they did was against the law, and maybe a lot of people - knowning they "skirted" jail time would be thankful for the second chance and do everything to stay out of jail they possibly could?
csnover 6y ago
The timing of this paper is remarkable to me, given Baltimore’s recent decision to permanently stop prosecuting some non-violent crimes. They made this change after apparently finding that violent crime dropped 20% once they implemented these policies temporarily due to COVID-19, while most other cities experienced increases in violent crime over the same time period.[0] I will be interested to see if these results continue to be replicated in other places. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/03/26/baltimore-reducing-prosecutions/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/03/26/baltimore...
- SamReidHughes 6y ago
  What crime decline? Baltimore had 348 homicides in 2019, 335 in 2020. That's a random fluctuation. Note that Baltimore's crime rate already spiked after the Freddie Gray's death in 2015 and then maintained that level, so there wasn't any room for double-dip of that phenomenon in June 2020.
rscoots 6y ago
Suddenly a lot more interested in this study since my city of Chicago seems to now be taking it as a policy recommendation. https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2021/3/28/22355204/foxx-says-new-study-backs-her-stance-too-many-misdemeanors-case-brought-court https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2021/3/28/22355204/foxx-s... Has anyone read through enough to determine how they control for certain cities being more lenient than others? If a criminal is more likely to get their first misdemeanor conviction in San Antonio than in Seattle, wouldn't it follow that the perp is more likely to 're-offend' since San Antonio (presumably) arrests more offenders in general than Seattle.

31 points by hirundo 6y ago

maxcan 6y ago

deleted

PeterisP 6y ago
Given their experimental setup (looking at the effect of randmly assigned ADAs who more or less likely to prosecute), it seems reasonable to assume that any such hidden variables would be evenly distributed among the randomly assigned ADAs.

sesuximo 6y ago

Seems like tuning this carefully would have good ROI... and be ethical

quaffapint 6y ago

The problem with 'misdemeanors' is they sound innocent enough when you take the plea, but we have a family member who got an undeserved misdemeanor back when he was 18 and after applying to job after job, no one will hire him because he simply has a misdemeanor. Even things like doordash or instacart - they told him no because he had a misdemeanor. Talking to the lawyer and all they said is to try to get a pardon in 10 years. So for 10 years because he was told a misdemeanor is nothing 'big' he won't be able to work unless he gets a job from a family friend or something. Then he can pay a lawyer to get a possible pardon? The system doesn't care about people like him.

istjohn 6y ago
Here in Ohio, a first time misdemeanor can generally be expunged after 2 years.
lupire 6y ago
Note that this is a problem because there are more people than jobs, so the "least favored people" can be an unemployable underclass. It wouldn't be so bad if we had a more robust work economy (fewer hours per worker, more workers) or a solid "employer of last resort".
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
Tons of people who plea bargained on domestic violence charges and DUIs they could have fought back when those were no big deal (because why spend $500 on a lawyer to beat a $200 fine nobody cares about) wound up getting screwed out of their established careers decades later when those charges became big deals.
artificialLimbs 6y ago
There may be a free (non-profit) legal clinic that can help him get the charges expunged (or sealed, whatever they're calling it these days). Here's one from my state: https://arlegalaid.org/ https://arlegalaid.org/ Might also look into getting a governor's pardon. I think it's called executive clemency. I also spoke with one of my local congresscritters and he was a great help in getting some of my ridiculous small charges sealed. This is another reason to NOT raise the minimum wage, and instead consider abolishing it. If people can work for a little bit of money instead of nothing while they build their reputations, it can go far.

smnrchrds 6y ago

Fun fact: if you are a permanent resident of the United States, not carrying your permanent resident card (green card) with you at all times is a misdemeanor.

lupire 6y ago

The blog author inches toward an idea of alternative punishment for misdemeanors. What if you could trade a day or week in prison for lash of a cane, like in Singapore? How about prison terms served 1 day a week? It would save money, be less invasive, but less profitable for the incarceration industry. Long-term weekday (workday) detention is a terrible punishment for anyone. It should only be used for prevention when needed to keep a violent menace away from victims.

marcus_holmes 6y ago
I would not take any examples from Singapore if what you want is a just and equitable society.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

This analysis isn't very helpful without knowing what percentage of misdemeanors in Suffolk county are a) revenue offenses where they have an official unwritten policy of letting anyone plead down to a lesser charge if they don't context the lesser charge or b) contempt of cop/state/authority type violations. People who get caught up in the former are normal everyday law abiding people and are unlikely to rack up a future felony. People caught up in the latter either learn to step in line or move west/north (a lot of behavior that would have you in handcuffs in Suffolk county would just get you a stern warning in other counties). Obviously a criminal record hurts the chances of getting ahead in life and at the margins decreased ability to get ahead does seem to correlate with crime but measuring how much is rife with confounding factors.

gremlinsinc 6y ago

Wouldn't being "brought up on charges" then not being prosecuted potentially "scare" the perpetrator, or alert them (if they didn't already know) that what they did was against the law, and maybe a lot of people - knowning they "skirted" jail time would be thankful for the second chance and do everything to stay out of jail they possibly could?

csnover 6y ago

The timing of this paper is remarkable to me, given Baltimore’s recent decision to permanently stop prosecuting some non-violent crimes. They made this change after apparently finding that violent crime dropped 20% once they implemented these policies temporarily due to COVID-19, while most other cities experienced increases in violent crime over the same time period.[0] I will be interested to see if these results continue to be replicated in other places. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/03/26/baltimore-reducing-prosecutions/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/03/26/baltimore...

SamReidHughes 6y ago
What crime decline? Baltimore had 348 homicides in 2019, 335 in 2020. That's a random fluctuation. Note that Baltimore's crime rate already spiked after the Freddie Gray's death in 2015 and then maintained that level, so there wasn't any room for double-dip of that phenomenon in June 2020.

rscoots 6y ago

Suddenly a lot more interested in this study since my city of Chicago seems to now be taking it as a policy recommendation. https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2021/3/28/22355204/foxx-says-new-study-backs-her-stance-too-many-misdemeanors-case-brought-court https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2021/3/28/22355204/foxx-s... Has anyone read through enough to determine how they control for certain cities being more lenient than others? If a criminal is more likely to get their first misdemeanor conviction in San Antonio than in Seattle, wouldn't it follow that the perp is more likely to 're-offend' since San Antonio (presumably) arrests more offenders in general than Seattle.