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Reading this article has changed the impression I had about git-mail-flow. Naturally, more questions came to my mind. Is a git-mail-flow compatible with contin

Reading this article has changed the impression I had about git-mail-flow. Naturally, more questions came to my mind. Is a git-mail-flow compatible with continuous integration? Yes, it seems to be https://sourcehut.org/blog/2020-07-14-setting-up-ci-for-mailing-lists/ https://sourcehut.org/blog/2020-07-14-setting-up-ci-for-mail... Is it possible to construct ergonomic workflows around a git-mail-flow? I suspect you could do it with notmuch and alot, although I wonder which tools do sourcehut users prefer.

IgorPartola 6y ago
The Linux kernel uses email. I can’t imagine that crowd does things the inconvenient way.
- vxNsr 6y ago
  Inconvenient to who? There a many things in Linux that anyone who doesn’t use Linux full time finds majorly inconvenient, a lot of the UX around Linux is only intuitive to the 45 year old graybeard. To us 30 year old win DevOps guys Linux isn’t actually that “convenient” out of the box.
  - edgyquant 6y ago
    They were talking about development of the Linux kernel, not using the OS. But I also take issue with your “graybeard” comment. Unix has won out for a reason, I and many other who aren’t old hats prefer the flow of development and deployment on Linux/Unix to that of Windows.
    - koonsolo 6y ago
      Especially in the frontend world it all seems to be unix command line.
    - tasogare 6y ago
      > Unix has won out Nop, it doesn’t. Linux, which is a Unix clone, has won on some category of computers (notably servers) but most unices derivativing from the original one have a marginal market share. > for a reason Price mostly, and access to sources.
      - Shared404 6y ago
        Mac is still certified Unix iirc, and FreeBSD powers at least Netflix, so it seems Unix proper is still sticking around.
    - vxNsr 6y ago
      I’m sorry, I use that as a term of endearment. The GP appeared to me to be implying that those who work on Linux prefer convenience I was just remarking that convenience doesn’t always equal ease of use for most ppl.
  - lelanthran 6y ago
    > To us 30 year old win DevOps There's your problem right there. If you expect unix models to follow the particular broken-by-design failures of Windows on the server then that's the problem. Unix models have their own broken-by-design crap, and it is different to the one you know :-)
  - Shared404 6y ago
    19 year old DevOps/Sysadmin here, gonna have to disagree. I can work with Windows, but I hate every second of it. Meanwhile, Linux/BSD is intuitive and easy to get going. Almost like what tools you know impact what you find easy.
    - vxNsr 6y ago
      Can I ask what’s intuitive about a UX that hides all functionality behind cryptic commands that require reading the mind of the person who made them to know which three letters correspond to the acronym of the command you’re trying to run?
      - Shared404 6y ago
        Perhaps intuitive is the wrong word. Once you are familiar with it, it is easy to continue using, and much faster than fumbling around in a GUI trying to find the magic button. For most commands it's also easy to find the necessary subcommand via man or -h or whatever. The other big thing is scriptability, there's a number of things I find myself doing a few times a day, I can throw that in a script (about a minute to do for most of them) and now they take .5 seconds to do, versus waiting for a GUI to load/run -- Plus, now it's my stupid 3 letter acronym I need to remember :P .
- sofixa 6y ago
  I can't imagine that crowd doing it anything but their preferred way. Remember when a Debian maintainer quit due to the obsoleteness of the toolchain that the other maintainers flat out refused improve because "it worked" ( my google-fu is failing me, if someone finds it please post it)? I imagine things to be the same with the kernel ( not saying the toolchain is obsolete, just that if it were, they won't just change and jump to the latest X).
  - nethead 6y ago
    This one: https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2019-03-10-debian-winding-down/ https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2019-03-10-debian-windin... ?
    - sofixa 6y ago
      Yep, thanks!
    - ddevault 6y ago
      This seems to have everything to do with Debian and nothing to do with git-via-email.
      - detaro 6y ago
        Nobody said it did.
- PurpleFoxy 6y ago
  I imagine it’s convenient to them but being difficult for everyone else is a feature. They don’t want people sending in random garbage code so the barrier to entry is kept high.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  Despite technical brilliance, this is one of the most closed-minded and stubborn crowds arounds. Just look at the reaction to adding case-insensitive functionality in filesystem in comments: https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2020/08/27/using-the-linux-kernel-case-insensitive-feature-in-ext4/ https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2020/08/27/usin...
  - swiley 6y ago
    Case insensitive filesystems are a really bad idea though.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - colejohnson66 6y ago
      But why? Why are they a bad idea besides “Windows does it and ‘Windows bad’”? Why is DNS case insensitive (example.com and EXAMPLE.com are the same), but not files (.Xauthority and .xauthority are different)? Case insensitivity lines up with the average user’s expectations. For example, if I’m searching for a file, I want a case insensitive match. Because if I named a file “Resume.txt” and searching “resume” didn’t bring it up, I’d be pretty confused. Now imagine the average Joe trying it. Explaining to them case sensitivity won’t convince them it’s a good idea because “Resume” and “resume” are the same thing.
      - yakubin 6y ago
        Should that work different for different languages? Imagine the mess. Maybe the file names aren't even written in any human language. Should we use English rules for all languages? Why? What makes English so special that English characters would be normalized, but characters from the native language of the user won't? Wouldn't that trip people up? Case-insensitive file systems are mostly advocated for by those who only or mainly speak English and aren't aware of how much variety there is in the languages across the globe. And even in English "us" is a pronoun, whereas "US" is a country. EDIT: another question: should the normalization rules be changed when the language changes? Break backwards-compatibility?
ddevault 6y ago
I use an email client I wrote for this purpose: https://aerc-mail.org/ https://aerc-mail.org/ Greg-KH has also written about his mutt workflow: http://www.kroah.com/log/blog/2019/08/14/patch-workflow-with-mutt-2019/ http://www.kroah.com/log/blog/2019/08/14/patch-workflow-with... Though his volume and needs are probably different from most users.

IgorPartola 6y ago

The Linux kernel uses email. I can’t imagine that crowd does things the inconvenient way.

vxNsr 6y ago
Inconvenient to who? There a many things in Linux that anyone who doesn’t use Linux full time finds majorly inconvenient, a lot of the UX around Linux is only intuitive to the 45 year old graybeard. To us 30 year old win DevOps guys Linux isn’t actually that “convenient” out of the box.
- edgyquant 6y ago
  They were talking about development of the Linux kernel, not using the OS. But I also take issue with your “graybeard” comment. Unix has won out for a reason, I and many other who aren’t old hats prefer the flow of development and deployment on Linux/Unix to that of Windows.
  - koonsolo 6y ago
    Especially in the frontend world it all seems to be unix command line.
  - tasogare 6y ago
    > Unix has won out Nop, it doesn’t. Linux, which is a Unix clone, has won on some category of computers (notably servers) but most unices derivativing from the original one have a marginal market share. > for a reason Price mostly, and access to sources.
    - Shared404 6y ago
      Mac is still certified Unix iirc, and FreeBSD powers at least Netflix, so it seems Unix proper is still sticking around.
  - vxNsr 6y ago
    I’m sorry, I use that as a term of endearment. The GP appeared to me to be implying that those who work on Linux prefer convenience I was just remarking that convenience doesn’t always equal ease of use for most ppl.
- lelanthran 6y ago
  > To us 30 year old win DevOps There's your problem right there. If you expect unix models to follow the particular broken-by-design failures of Windows on the server then that's the problem. Unix models have their own broken-by-design crap, and it is different to the one you know :-)
- Shared404 6y ago
  19 year old DevOps/Sysadmin here, gonna have to disagree. I can work with Windows, but I hate every second of it. Meanwhile, Linux/BSD is intuitive and easy to get going. Almost like what tools you know impact what you find easy.
  - vxNsr 6y ago
    Can I ask what’s intuitive about a UX that hides all functionality behind cryptic commands that require reading the mind of the person who made them to know which three letters correspond to the acronym of the command you’re trying to run?
    - Shared404 6y ago
      Perhaps intuitive is the wrong word. Once you are familiar with it, it is easy to continue using, and much faster than fumbling around in a GUI trying to find the magic button. For most commands it's also easy to find the necessary subcommand via man or -h or whatever. The other big thing is scriptability, there's a number of things I find myself doing a few times a day, I can throw that in a script (about a minute to do for most of them) and now they take .5 seconds to do, versus waiting for a GUI to load/run -- Plus, now it's my stupid 3 letter acronym I need to remember :P .
sofixa 6y ago
I can't imagine that crowd doing it anything but their preferred way. Remember when a Debian maintainer quit due to the obsoleteness of the toolchain that the other maintainers flat out refused improve because "it worked" ( my google-fu is failing me, if someone finds it please post it)? I imagine things to be the same with the kernel ( not saying the toolchain is obsolete, just that if it were, they won't just change and jump to the latest X).
- nethead 6y ago
  This one: https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2019-03-10-debian-winding-down/ https://michael.stapelberg.ch/posts/2019-03-10-debian-windin... ?
  - sofixa 6y ago
    Yep, thanks!
  - ddevault 6y ago
    This seems to have everything to do with Debian and nothing to do with git-via-email.
    - detaro 6y ago
      Nobody said it did.
PurpleFoxy 6y ago
I imagine it’s convenient to them but being difficult for everyone else is a feature. They don’t want people sending in random garbage code so the barrier to entry is kept high.
ClumsyPilot 6y ago
Despite technical brilliance, this is one of the most closed-minded and stubborn crowds arounds. Just look at the reaction to adding case-insensitive functionality in filesystem in comments: https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2020/08/27/using-the-linux-kernel-case-insensitive-feature-in-ext4/ https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2020/08/27/usin...
- swiley 6y ago
  Case insensitive filesystems are a really bad idea though.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - colejohnson66 6y ago
    But why? Why are they a bad idea besides “Windows does it and ‘Windows bad’”? Why is DNS case insensitive (example.com and EXAMPLE.com are the same), but not files (.Xauthority and .xauthority are different)? Case insensitivity lines up with the average user’s expectations. For example, if I’m searching for a file, I want a case insensitive match. Because if I named a file “Resume.txt” and searching “resume” didn’t bring it up, I’d be pretty confused. Now imagine the average Joe trying it. Explaining to them case sensitivity won’t convince them it’s a good idea because “Resume” and “resume” are the same thing.
    - yakubin 6y ago
      Should that work different for different languages? Imagine the mess. Maybe the file names aren't even written in any human language. Should we use English rules for all languages? Why? What makes English so special that English characters would be normalized, but characters from the native language of the user won't? Wouldn't that trip people up? Case-insensitive file systems are mostly advocated for by those who only or mainly speak English and aren't aware of how much variety there is in the languages across the globe. And even in English "us" is a pronoun, whereas "US" is a country. EDIT: another question: should the normalization rules be changed when the language changes? Break backwards-compatibility?

ddevault 6y ago

I use an email client I wrote for this purpose: https://aerc-mail.org/ https://aerc-mail.org/ Greg-KH has also written about his mutt workflow: http://www.kroah.com/log/blog/2019/08/14/patch-workflow-with-mutt-2019/ http://www.kroah.com/log/blog/2019/08/14/patch-workflow-with... Though his volume and needs are probably different from most users.