6 ms·

Reading the primary claim is fascinating: "A composition, comprising: a messenger ribonucleic acid (mRNA) comprising an open reading frame encoding a betacorona

Reading the primary claim is fascinating: "A composition, comprising: a messenger ribonucleic acid (mRNA) comprising an open reading frame encoding a betacoronavirus (BetaCoV) S protein or S protein subunit formulated in a lipid nanoparticle." I have a "I'm sure that means something to somebody" feeling. It's also surprising that the remaining claims seem to describe the resulting bits of the sequence, and that that primary claim can stand on its own. Of course, I'm by no means an expert.

bdonlan 6y ago
Claims are read in the context of the body of the patent and generally known and/or cited knowledge in the field in question. As long as you define precisely what you mean by your terms in the body, you can be as succinct as you want in the claims.
ethbr0 6y ago
It's an interesting structure, but probably partly out of patent law. To wit, SARS-nCoV-2 is non-patentable, being of natural occurance. But a specific composition that encodes its spike protein, encapsulated in a lipid nanoparticle? That's much more of a creative work.
- The_rationalist 6y ago
  If it's just the spike protein encapsulated in a lipid nanoparticule (for isolation and transportation?), that looks like something not creative and quite established for people in the field of genetic material transport.
  - ethbr0 6y ago
    My layperson's understanding is that the actual spike protein and/or mRNA are modified from the natural versions. Both for stabilization (if either falls apart quickly, they're of no use) and for response optimization. So somewhat like how a fishing fly differs from the insect it represents.
- Benjamin_Dobell 6y ago
  > That's much more of a creative work. Probably worth noting that patents are not required to be creative. That's copyright terminology. I think the terminology used for patents is something like "inventive and useful".
- mikehollinger 6y ago
  > It's an interesting structure... I think that's the question. I'm very much used to reading "A machine-readable medium, comprising..." I'm curious what bits are unique to COVID-19, and what bits are generally protecting the idea of using a carrier to send a specific protein. In this case, is it the "S" protein phrasing that protects the specific embodiment of COVID19's spike?
  - mlyle 6y ago
    Here what is claimed is encoding for any betacoronavirus's spike protein.
    - mikehollinger 6y ago
      > Here what is claimed is encoding for any betacoronavirus's spike protein. Aha! That's what is surprising to me - I assumed that that would have been done previously / protected previously. That explains it.
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  > To wit, SARS-nCoV-2 is non-patentable, being of natural occurance. Looks man-made (modified in a lab) by most informed people.
mlyle 6y ago
> I have a "I'm sure that means something to somebody" feeling. Break it down! It's not so bad: > A composition A bunch of stuff > a messenger ribonucleic acid (mRNA) mRNA are cellular instructions on how to make proteins that are read by ribosomes that make those proteins as they read along. > an open reading frame This is something that starts with a "start codon" and ends with an "ending codon" and encodes valid instructions to make a protein between. > encoding a betacoronavirus (BetaCoV) S protein or S protein subunit The instructions refer to the spike protein of a betacoronavirus, or a fragment thereof, because this is what we want the immune system to pay attention to (and make antibodies to bind to and neutralize). > in a lipid nanoparticle The immune system gets pissed off about mRNA floating around, because that's one of the things that happens with active infection. So if you want this to get into cells and tell them to make your protein, you need to encase it so that it mostly escapes immune notice itself.
- mrfusion 6y ago
  Why haven’t viruses or bacteria evolved to use a lipid nano particle to evade the immune system? Seems like a big security flaw in our cells?
  - issamehh 6y ago
    Don't give them any good ideas
  - schoen 6y ago
    I remember someone coming up with a song to encourage people to wash their hands more thoroughly much earlier in this pandemic. https://twitter.com/vesselofspirit/status/1237488642425147392?lang=en https://twitter.com/vesselofspirit/status/123748864242514739... According to the song lyric, "novel coronavirus / has a lipid outer shell". So it seems like some viruses have taken advantage of this.
    - retSava 6y ago
      Yeah I think that's the reason for the 20-30 second wash since it takes time for the soap to break down the fatty layer.
jcims 6y ago
This is a great animation of the life cycle of an HIV virus. It’s not exactly what happens with the pandemic virus but it gives you a good idea of the complexity of the process of viral reproduction (vaccine or immune response isn’t covered here): https://vimeo.com/260291607 https://vimeo.com/260291607 Animation of transcription from mRNA: https://youtu.be/TfYf_rPWUdY https://youtu.be/TfYf_rPWUdY
- nielsbot 6y ago
  It blows my mind to see how life (and death) work at the molecular level--it's almost like some kind of manmade machine, but far more subtle and complex.
  - shpongled 6y ago
    As a biochemist, that's one of the things that has kept me interested in the work - it's truly mind boggling what is going on at the molecular level every second of our lives.
    - jcims 6y ago
      I love reading articles around biology, micro/molecular biology in particular, and looking for references to agency in the text. 'selects', 'filters', 'checks', 'seeks', etc when the reality is that the whole thing is just a massive chemical reaction.
  - ssener2001 6y ago
    Yes.One must know all programming of molecules and all laws current in the universe. perfect hierarchy from atoms to the cells, from cells to plants, animals from animals to earth, from earth to stars
  - dnautics 6y ago
    Just remember that it's not really orchestrated. All of the molecules involve are kind of randomly blundering about and it's one-in-a-million collisions that are responsible for getting shit done (on membranes it's more like one in a thousand and on ropelike structures like dna or actin it's one in a hundred).

bdonlan 6y ago

Claims are read in the context of the body of the patent and generally known and/or cited knowledge in the field in question. As long as you define precisely what you mean by your terms in the body, you can be as succinct as you want in the claims.

ethbr0 6y ago

It's an interesting structure, but probably partly out of patent law. To wit, SARS-nCoV-2 is non-patentable, being of natural occurance. But a specific composition that encodes its spike protein, encapsulated in a lipid nanoparticle? That's much more of a creative work.

The_rationalist 6y ago
If it's just the spike protein encapsulated in a lipid nanoparticule (for isolation and transportation?), that looks like something not creative and quite established for people in the field of genetic material transport.
- ethbr0 6y ago
  My layperson's understanding is that the actual spike protein and/or mRNA are modified from the natural versions. Both for stabilization (if either falls apart quickly, they're of no use) and for response optimization. So somewhat like how a fishing fly differs from the insect it represents.
Benjamin_Dobell 6y ago
> That's much more of a creative work. Probably worth noting that patents are not required to be creative. That's copyright terminology. I think the terminology used for patents is something like "inventive and useful".
mikehollinger 6y ago
> It's an interesting structure... I think that's the question. I'm very much used to reading "A machine-readable medium, comprising..." I'm curious what bits are unique to COVID-19, and what bits are generally protecting the idea of using a carrier to send a specific protein. In this case, is it the "S" protein phrasing that protects the specific embodiment of COVID19's spike?
- mlyle 6y ago
  Here what is claimed is encoding for any betacoronavirus's spike protein.
  - mikehollinger 6y ago
    > Here what is claimed is encoding for any betacoronavirus's spike protein. Aha! That's what is surprising to me - I assumed that that would have been done previously / protected previously. That explains it.
redis_mlc 6y ago
> To wit, SARS-nCoV-2 is non-patentable, being of natural occurance. Looks man-made (modified in a lab) by most informed people.

mlyle 6y ago

> I have a "I'm sure that means something to somebody" feeling. Break it down! It's not so bad: > A composition A bunch of stuff > a messenger ribonucleic acid (mRNA) mRNA are cellular instructions on how to make proteins that are read by ribosomes that make those proteins as they read along. > an open reading frame This is something that starts with a "start codon" and ends with an "ending codon" and encodes valid instructions to make a protein between. > encoding a betacoronavirus (BetaCoV) S protein or S protein subunit The instructions refer to the spike protein of a betacoronavirus, or a fragment thereof, because this is what we want the immune system to pay attention to (and make antibodies to bind to and neutralize). > in a lipid nanoparticle The immune system gets pissed off about mRNA floating around, because that's one of the things that happens with active infection. So if you want this to get into cells and tell them to make your protein, you need to encase it so that it mostly escapes immune notice itself.

mrfusion 6y ago
Why haven’t viruses or bacteria evolved to use a lipid nano particle to evade the immune system? Seems like a big security flaw in our cells?
- issamehh 6y ago
  Don't give them any good ideas
- schoen 6y ago
  I remember someone coming up with a song to encourage people to wash their hands more thoroughly much earlier in this pandemic. https://twitter.com/vesselofspirit/status/1237488642425147392?lang=en https://twitter.com/vesselofspirit/status/123748864242514739... According to the song lyric, "novel coronavirus / has a lipid outer shell". So it seems like some viruses have taken advantage of this.
  - retSava 6y ago
    Yeah I think that's the reason for the 20-30 second wash since it takes time for the soap to break down the fatty layer.

jcims 6y ago

This is a great animation of the life cycle of an HIV virus. It’s not exactly what happens with the pandemic virus but it gives you a good idea of the complexity of the process of viral reproduction (vaccine or immune response isn’t covered here): https://vimeo.com/260291607 https://vimeo.com/260291607 Animation of transcription from mRNA: https://youtu.be/TfYf_rPWUdY https://youtu.be/TfYf_rPWUdY

nielsbot 6y ago
It blows my mind to see how life (and death) work at the molecular level--it's almost like some kind of manmade machine, but far more subtle and complex.
- shpongled 6y ago
  As a biochemist, that's one of the things that has kept me interested in the work - it's truly mind boggling what is going on at the molecular level every second of our lives.
  - jcims 6y ago
    I love reading articles around biology, micro/molecular biology in particular, and looking for references to agency in the text. 'selects', 'filters', 'checks', 'seeks', etc when the reality is that the whole thing is just a massive chemical reaction.
- ssener2001 6y ago
  Yes.One must know all programming of molecules and all laws current in the universe. perfect hierarchy from atoms to the cells, from cells to plants, animals from animals to earth, from earth to stars
- dnautics 6y ago
  Just remember that it's not really orchestrated. All of the molecules involve are kind of randomly blundering about and it's one-in-a-million collisions that are responsible for getting shit done (on membranes it's more like one in a thousand and on ropelike structures like dna or actin it's one in a hundred).