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This is going to backfire so hard if it passes. Amazon will not accept becoming a Union shop they will fire everyone, automate what they can, and hire new peopl

This is going to backfire so hard if it passes. Amazon will not accept becoming a Union shop they will fire everyone, automate what they can, and hire new people for what they can't and start firing people every year if they need to. 100% unskilled labor can't successfully unionize anymore. In the old days they had the mob and strategic use of violence to force the Union into a position of power but that is no longer possible.

deleted 6y ago
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TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
They mention in the article that Amazon in Europe is largely unionized, and they don't have the mob. What makes you say we can't do the same here?
- strgcmc 6y ago
  Seriously! For all the folks crying foul about how unions are awful and won't work and folks will get automated out of a job, I feel like they simply have zero clue about unions in Europe. Is Amazon pulling out of the European market? Are the unions so onerous that it's unprofitable to do business there? Have there been massive waves of layoffs and replacing union workers in Europe with robots? Yes, automation is coming, and yes society as a whole has to reckon with what it means to have an automated society with a drastically different labor market. But the fact that Amazon is energetically growing and pursuing business in Europe, proves what a strawman this whole idea is, that unions are somehow inherently ridiculous or could never possibly work. Guess what, they're working, in production today, and have been for decades. The fact that entrenched powers don't want it to work in the US, doesn't mean it can't work.
  - undefined1 6y ago
    tradeoffs. maybe that's part of the reason why Europe doesn't spawn companies like Amazon in the first place? and why Silicon Valley exists in the US.
    - CPLX 6y ago
      Yeah or maybe it's the variation in pasty preferences between continental Europe and Northern California. Or the water salinity. Point being if you're going to make an aggressive claim of that type you'll have to back it up with evidence.
- notJim 6y ago
  Wait wait, I'm in favor of unions, and I hope they win here, but didn't Europe literally invent the mob?
mc32 6y ago
This going to be a culmination of damned if you do, damned if you don’t. If you don’t Amazon treats you as expendable, if you do, you will only accelerate automation further resulting in fewer unskilled jobs.
cafeoh 6y ago
Automatable task gets automated, 100% unskilled labor gets replaced with robots. I don't believe that's backfiring, I believe it's the only way for Amazon to keep doing what it does without being "evil".
saas_sam 6y ago
They absolutely still have the mob and strategic use of violence. The mob is social media, wielded by corporate media. Strategic use of violence didn't end last summer. See: Salem, OR. It will erupt again if powers that be deem it beneficial.
igorkraw 6y ago
Well, then it will be fully mask off for amazon. And it is historically unwise from a societal standpoint to surpress all ways of peaceful worker participation. We'll see what road the US/amazon will go.
pydry 6y ago
Amazon wouldn't give a damn about the vote if they could just automate everything. It's a rather pathetic threat to make. Either it happens or it doesnt - unionization won't make automation technology intrinsically better.
- notJim 6y ago
  From what I understand, companies do tend to automate more if labor costs rise. If your employees cost $30/hr instead of $15/hr, it makes sense to invest in their productivity. This is one reason higher minimum wages aren't the disaster their opponents claim they are. Companies invest in productivity to maintain their profitability. Higher wages do also reduce capital's share of profits, though, which is the intended outcome.
  - gruez 6y ago
    >Companies invest in productivity to maintain their profitability. Higher wages do also reduce capital's share of profits, though, which is the intended outcome. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Businesses have to invest more in productivity to maintain their profitability, thereby increasing the capital's share of profits because they need to pay for the capital?
stefan_ 6y ago
Right, because whats stopping them to do that anyways.. is this union vote? You are not making any sense. If it's all so great in AI robotics land, it would be here already.
tyingq 6y ago
"Amazon will not accept becoming a Union shop..." To be fair, that could backfire as well. There seems to be some anti-big-tech sentiment floating around in the US Congress right now.

deleted 6y ago

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TheAdamAndChe 6y ago

They mention in the article that Amazon in Europe is largely unionized, and they don't have the mob. What makes you say we can't do the same here?

strgcmc 6y ago
Seriously! For all the folks crying foul about how unions are awful and won't work and folks will get automated out of a job, I feel like they simply have zero clue about unions in Europe. Is Amazon pulling out of the European market? Are the unions so onerous that it's unprofitable to do business there? Have there been massive waves of layoffs and replacing union workers in Europe with robots? Yes, automation is coming, and yes society as a whole has to reckon with what it means to have an automated society with a drastically different labor market. But the fact that Amazon is energetically growing and pursuing business in Europe, proves what a strawman this whole idea is, that unions are somehow inherently ridiculous or could never possibly work. Guess what, they're working, in production today, and have been for decades. The fact that entrenched powers don't want it to work in the US, doesn't mean it can't work.
- undefined1 6y ago
  tradeoffs. maybe that's part of the reason why Europe doesn't spawn companies like Amazon in the first place? and why Silicon Valley exists in the US.
  - CPLX 6y ago
    Yeah or maybe it's the variation in pasty preferences between continental Europe and Northern California. Or the water salinity. Point being if you're going to make an aggressive claim of that type you'll have to back it up with evidence.
notJim 6y ago
Wait wait, I'm in favor of unions, and I hope they win here, but didn't Europe literally invent the mob?

mc32 6y ago

This going to be a culmination of damned if you do, damned if you don’t. If you don’t Amazon treats you as expendable, if you do, you will only accelerate automation further resulting in fewer unskilled jobs.

cafeoh 6y ago

Automatable task gets automated, 100% unskilled labor gets replaced with robots. I don't believe that's backfiring, I believe it's the only way for Amazon to keep doing what it does without being "evil".

saas_sam 6y ago

They absolutely still have the mob and strategic use of violence. The mob is social media, wielded by corporate media. Strategic use of violence didn't end last summer. See: Salem, OR. It will erupt again if powers that be deem it beneficial.

igorkraw 6y ago

Well, then it will be fully mask off for amazon. And it is historically unwise from a societal standpoint to surpress all ways of peaceful worker participation. We'll see what road the US/amazon will go.

pydry 6y ago

Amazon wouldn't give a damn about the vote if they could just automate everything. It's a rather pathetic threat to make. Either it happens or it doesnt - unionization won't make automation technology intrinsically better.

notJim 6y ago
From what I understand, companies do tend to automate more if labor costs rise. If your employees cost $30/hr instead of $15/hr, it makes sense to invest in their productivity. This is one reason higher minimum wages aren't the disaster their opponents claim they are. Companies invest in productivity to maintain their profitability. Higher wages do also reduce capital's share of profits, though, which is the intended outcome.
- gruez 6y ago
  >Companies invest in productivity to maintain their profitability. Higher wages do also reduce capital's share of profits, though, which is the intended outcome. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Businesses have to invest more in productivity to maintain their profitability, thereby increasing the capital's share of profits because they need to pay for the capital?

stefan_ 6y ago

Right, because whats stopping them to do that anyways.. is this union vote? You are not making any sense. If it's all so great in AI robotics land, it would be here already.

tyingq 6y ago

"Amazon will not accept becoming a Union shop..." To be fair, that could backfire as well. There seems to be some anti-big-tech sentiment floating around in the US Congress right now.