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Turing's work has some independent value, it's not just a mess of philosophical/moral opinions like Wallace is offering up in this speech. If nothing else, Wal

Turing's work has some independent value, it's not just a mess of philosophical/moral opinions like Wallace is offering up in this speech. If nothing else, Wallace's suicide illustrates to me what a gulf there is between "saying things that sound wise" and actually living wisely. One has very little to do with the other.

caslon 6y ago
A suicide doesn't mean your life wasn't lived wisely. He was suffering from a clinically-diagnosed depressive disorder, was told to stop taking antidepressants by his own doctor, and was recommended to try electric shock as an alternative. His suicide was less "stupid man is sad" than "Wow, look! The medical industry isn't even trying to fix depression."
- InvertedRhodium 6y ago
  Given that there topic seems to broadly be about happiness and personal satisfaction, you could argue that someone suffering from depression is either wholly unsuited to the task or someone with excellent perspective. I don't think it's overly surprising that suicide undermines your credibility on those topics with some people.
  - bckr 6y ago
    Yeah, I don't think the useful discussion is whether a wise person / person with wisdom would commit suicide, or whether a person who committed suicide could be considered wise. The useful discussion is "Is this person's way of thinking probably going to help me improve my life?"—if someone committed suicide, I would think twice about thinking similarly to that person. To illustrate why, I'm depressed. I don't have direct control over this. But I do have some control over what I think. If I bow to the thoughts "this life is not worth living", yeah, I become more likely to slit my wrists. But if I think "I'm not going to identify with these thoughts. I'm going to eat lunch and that will probably make me feel better", I think my life will be longer and better. Not saying you can think yourself out of clinical depression, but I'm going to be careful about what I decide to think, and who I'm going to model in my thinking.

caslon 6y ago

A suicide doesn't mean your life wasn't lived wisely. He was suffering from a clinically-diagnosed depressive disorder, was told to stop taking antidepressants by his own doctor, and was recommended to try electric shock as an alternative. His suicide was less "stupid man is sad" than "Wow, look! The medical industry isn't even trying to fix depression."

InvertedRhodium 6y ago
Given that there topic seems to broadly be about happiness and personal satisfaction, you could argue that someone suffering from depression is either wholly unsuited to the task or someone with excellent perspective. I don't think it's overly surprising that suicide undermines your credibility on those topics with some people.
- bckr 6y ago
  Yeah, I don't think the useful discussion is whether a wise person / person with wisdom would commit suicide, or whether a person who committed suicide could be considered wise. The useful discussion is "Is this person's way of thinking probably going to help me improve my life?"—if someone committed suicide, I would think twice about thinking similarly to that person. To illustrate why, I'm depressed. I don't have direct control over this. But I do have some control over what I think. If I bow to the thoughts "this life is not worth living", yeah, I become more likely to slit my wrists. But if I think "I'm not going to identify with these thoughts. I'm going to eat lunch and that will probably make me feel better", I think my life will be longer and better. Not saying you can think yourself out of clinical depression, but I'm going to be careful about what I decide to think, and who I'm going to model in my thinking.