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> Minsky organized two academic symposia on Epstein's private island Little Saint James, one in 2002 and another in 2011 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_M

by maratc 6y ago

> Minsky organized two academic symposia on Epstein's private island Little Saint James, one in 2002 and another in 2011 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Minsky#Association_with_Jeffrey_Epstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Minsky#Association_with... > Born Virginia Louise Roberts — August 9, 1983 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Roberts_Giuffre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Roberts_Giuffre Someone born in 1983 was either 18 or 19 in 2002. I'm not that supportive of RMS, or his habits, or his goals, but even if there was sex between Minsky and Guiffre — and no allegations of it ever being occurred have been brought up so far — no statutory rape could have happened.

brnt 6y ago
I would find any older man hanging out with 18-19 year olds sufficiently weird to raise my guards. I can imagine just a single reason that makes them think its a good idea to skirt the line that closely. You're right, in the end you need proof for a conviction. We however don't need that high a bar to get a pretty good measure of a person, and we're free to dislike someone for manoeuvring themselves into situations where abuse of power imbalance is made so easy. I'm always open to correction in particular cases, but my default will always be to be aware of the decreased barriers of committing abuse.
- vimacs2 6y ago
  To play a little bit of defense here, there was definitely a bit of manipulation here by Epstein himself by gathering all these scientists and engineers, many of whom were assured that their colleagues would be there - framing it as a convention instead of what it actually was. Once you have everybody in the Island, just insert these beautiful women and try to get either entrapment or at the very least a photo or recording that looks compromising. I don't buy that everybody in Epstein's contact list were ignorant of the true nature of his enterprise but one-off academic guests probably were.
  - brnt 6y ago
    Perhaps they were not aware beforehand, but I find it difficult to believe that on the island it wouldn't be. It provides a confronting look into ones character. Minsky went there a second time. I'll need proof to convict him, I'll also need proof to exhonorate him. I looks like I'll get neither proof.
- vfclists 6y ago
  > I would find any older man hanging out with 18-19 year olds sufficiently weird to raise my guards Weird is not a crime and how old is older? In many societies including within the US, being with an older man may be seen as providing financial security and stability and is not considered as inherently wrong.
  - brnt 6y ago
    I was specific: I understand the inverse reason and find it more valid and as such don't have nearly the size of a beef with it and therefore didn't mention it. I'm also not saying it's inherently wrong, I'm only saying that I find it sufficiently deep into suspicious territory to raise my guards. And I explained why I think that: because it lowers thresholds for committing abuse. The young person in this scenario is not in the position of power after all.

by maratc 6y ago

brnt 6y ago

I would find any older man hanging out with 18-19 year olds sufficiently weird to raise my guards. I can imagine just a single reason that makes them think its a good idea to skirt the line that closely. You're right, in the end you need proof for a conviction. We however don't need that high a bar to get a pretty good measure of a person, and we're free to dislike someone for manoeuvring themselves into situations where abuse of power imbalance is made so easy. I'm always open to correction in particular cases, but my default will always be to be aware of the decreased barriers of committing abuse.

vimacs2 6y ago
To play a little bit of defense here, there was definitely a bit of manipulation here by Epstein himself by gathering all these scientists and engineers, many of whom were assured that their colleagues would be there - framing it as a convention instead of what it actually was. Once you have everybody in the Island, just insert these beautiful women and try to get either entrapment or at the very least a photo or recording that looks compromising. I don't buy that everybody in Epstein's contact list were ignorant of the true nature of his enterprise but one-off academic guests probably were.
- brnt 6y ago
  Perhaps they were not aware beforehand, but I find it difficult to believe that on the island it wouldn't be. It provides a confronting look into ones character. Minsky went there a second time. I'll need proof to convict him, I'll also need proof to exhonorate him. I looks like I'll get neither proof.
vfclists 6y ago
> I would find any older man hanging out with 18-19 year olds sufficiently weird to raise my guards Weird is not a crime and how old is older? In many societies including within the US, being with an older man may be seen as providing financial security and stability and is not considered as inherently wrong.
- brnt 6y ago
  I was specific: I understand the inverse reason and find it more valid and as such don't have nearly the size of a beef with it and therefore didn't mention it. I'm also not saying it's inherently wrong, I'm only saying that I find it sufficiently deep into suspicious territory to raise my guards. And I explained why I think that: because it lowers thresholds for committing abuse. The young person in this scenario is not in the position of power after all.