18 ms·

> What should you do? Phrase it better. Post your reports with the attitude that you are just one user, using free software, from the humility of your own perso

> What should you do? Phrase it better. Post your reports with the attitude that you are just one user, using free software, from the humility of your own personal experience on your own system. Make it clear you don't expect anything from the report, you are grateful the software exists, you intend to keep using it and this is your small way of giving back. Say this in words because I can't see your face or hear your voice. Write "thank you" and mean it. Acknowledge the costs in time and money to bring it to you. Tell me what's good about it and what you use it for. That's how you create a relationship where I can see you as a person and not a demand request, and where you can see me as a maintainer and not a vending machine. Value my work so that I can value your insights into it. Politeness, courtesy and understanding didn't go out the window just because we're interacting through a computer screen. This should be part of bug reporting training.

pwdisswordfish6 6y ago
Strong disagreement from here. I don't want that kind of stuff in bug reports for the same reason that I don't want to have to deal with "hello", "good morning", from coworkers in messenger applications, and I will assume that for your sake you don't want to deal with it either, unless you explicitly say so. So if this is a requirement for writing and responding to bugs, then you should "say it in words" that that's what you want.
- eropple 6y ago
  The baseline expectation of social niceties is the lubricant upon which our human systems run. That you don't personally find them necessary, or even perhaps find them aggravating, does not mean that they should not be by-default valued in the recognition that the person at the other end of the line is a fellow human being with feelings and needs. It does not take much effort to be nice in the general case. Your desire for efficiency does not supersede respect for others' humanity. And, frankly--resentment at a coworker for saying "good morning"? Yikes.
  - pwdisswordfish6 6y ago
    I'll note that you didn't start your response here with pleasantries, and no one else has, either. By leaping at the opportunity to condescendingly explain human behavior, you've slipped into attacking a strawman. Take your passive aggressive yikes elsewhere. Being delayed by a "good morning" from an oblivious coworker? More than just annoying. (Obligatory "pleasantries" from coworkers who otherwise take glee in making you miserable and obstruct you for sport? Much, much worse.) We're not friends--we're coworkers, at least nominally, and I probably have a stack of shit this high to deal with--that you may or may not be the cause of. How about this for being "nice": don't force me into dealing with your bullshit, against my wishes. Where's your recognition that I'm a human with feelings and needs?
    - bobthebuilders 6y ago
      You're unable of living in real life if you can't exchange pleasantries. It's kinda sad for some of us introverts out there, but the reality is that these things can do a lot for even simple things like job mobility in the subconscious sense. You may get mad at someone for interrupting your work for instance, but saying hello and goodbye and thank you does wonders for getting people to like you more, being able to tell someone to stop bothering you when you need it, and even in what people perceive as personality.
      - pwdisswordfish6 6y ago
        So you're doubling down on condescendingly explaining how to human. Cool. Consider this: I have a high emotional IQ and acutely understand whatever lesson you think you're imparting here, I just don't have the kind of bullshit budget required in this context. Here's the obvious consequence that no one ever seems to get, even with having it explained to them: if I'm going to have to start dropping things on the floor and make some people unhappy, guess who I'm going to choose to be the recipient? All the people most responsible for squandering the resources that were available.
        bobthebuilders 6y ago
Arainach 6y ago
I disagree. Bug trackers should be respectful, and users should know that they are just one user and be humble without demanding that things are fixed immediately or otherwise showing anger/entitlement. That doesn't mean they should write prose in their reports. Bug reports should be precise and should make it obvious what's happening to allow them to be quickly triaged and understood. They should ideally be a bulleted list with configuration, what was done, what happened, and what the user expected to happen. Logs/screenshots/etc. can be attached as necessary. It is incredibly uncommon for anything else to be necessary - and I say this from more than a decade of experience in enterprise and end user-facing software that gets thousands of feedback/bug reports per day. As part of a triage team, I'm going through bug after bug after bug. I don't want to read paragraphs. I don't want to read your life story. I don't even really want to read your "thank you". I want to read exactly what is necessary to assign the bug to an owner and to understand its priority - no more, no less.
- capableweb 6y ago
  > and I say this from more than a decade of experience in enterprise and end user-facing software that gets thousands of feedback/bug reports per day > part of a triage team You have to realize your perspective is very different from the perspective of someone building small-scale open source software.
  - Arainach 6y ago
    Building small scale open source software, my time is even MORE valuable since I'm not even being paid to read your prose.
    - kenny11 6y ago
      Perhaps adding some prose along the lines of "Thanks for spending your time on this, I really enjoy using it" to these bug reports is the payment.
    - altano 6y ago
      "All these 'thank you's and 'please's are annoyingly adding to the verbosity of the bug reports!" said no small-scale open source software maintainer, ever.

pwdisswordfish6 6y ago

Strong disagreement from here. I don't want that kind of stuff in bug reports for the same reason that I don't want to have to deal with "hello", "good morning", from coworkers in messenger applications, and I will assume that for your sake you don't want to deal with it either, unless you explicitly say so. So if this is a requirement for writing and responding to bugs, then you should "say it in words" that that's what you want.

eropple 6y ago
The baseline expectation of social niceties is the lubricant upon which our human systems run. That you don't personally find them necessary, or even perhaps find them aggravating, does not mean that they should not be by-default valued in the recognition that the person at the other end of the line is a fellow human being with feelings and needs. It does not take much effort to be nice in the general case. Your desire for efficiency does not supersede respect for others' humanity. And, frankly--resentment at a coworker for saying "good morning"? Yikes.
- pwdisswordfish6 6y ago
  I'll note that you didn't start your response here with pleasantries, and no one else has, either. By leaping at the opportunity to condescendingly explain human behavior, you've slipped into attacking a strawman. Take your passive aggressive yikes elsewhere. Being delayed by a "good morning" from an oblivious coworker? More than just annoying. (Obligatory "pleasantries" from coworkers who otherwise take glee in making you miserable and obstruct you for sport? Much, much worse.) We're not friends--we're coworkers, at least nominally, and I probably have a stack of shit this high to deal with--that you may or may not be the cause of. How about this for being "nice": don't force me into dealing with your bullshit, against my wishes. Where's your recognition that I'm a human with feelings and needs?
  - bobthebuilders 6y ago
    You're unable of living in real life if you can't exchange pleasantries. It's kinda sad for some of us introverts out there, but the reality is that these things can do a lot for even simple things like job mobility in the subconscious sense. You may get mad at someone for interrupting your work for instance, but saying hello and goodbye and thank you does wonders for getting people to like you more, being able to tell someone to stop bothering you when you need it, and even in what people perceive as personality.
    - pwdisswordfish6 6y ago
      So you're doubling down on condescendingly explaining how to human. Cool. Consider this: I have a high emotional IQ and acutely understand whatever lesson you think you're imparting here, I just don't have the kind of bullshit budget required in this context. Here's the obvious consequence that no one ever seems to get, even with having it explained to them: if I'm going to have to start dropping things on the floor and make some people unhappy, guess who I'm going to choose to be the recipient? All the people most responsible for squandering the resources that were available.
      - bobthebuilders 6y ago

Arainach 6y ago

I disagree. Bug trackers should be respectful, and users should know that they are just one user and be humble without demanding that things are fixed immediately or otherwise showing anger/entitlement. That doesn't mean they should write prose in their reports. Bug reports should be precise and should make it obvious what's happening to allow them to be quickly triaged and understood. They should ideally be a bulleted list with configuration, what was done, what happened, and what the user expected to happen. Logs/screenshots/etc. can be attached as necessary. It is incredibly uncommon for anything else to be necessary - and I say this from more than a decade of experience in enterprise and end user-facing software that gets thousands of feedback/bug reports per day. As part of a triage team, I'm going through bug after bug after bug. I don't want to read paragraphs. I don't want to read your life story. I don't even really want to read your "thank you". I want to read exactly what is necessary to assign the bug to an owner and to understand its priority - no more, no less.

capableweb 6y ago
> and I say this from more than a decade of experience in enterprise and end user-facing software that gets thousands of feedback/bug reports per day > part of a triage team You have to realize your perspective is very different from the perspective of someone building small-scale open source software.
- Arainach 6y ago
  Building small scale open source software, my time is even MORE valuable since I'm not even being paid to read your prose.
  - kenny11 6y ago
    Perhaps adding some prose along the lines of "Thanks for spending your time on this, I really enjoy using it" to these bug reports is the payment.
  - altano 6y ago
    "All these 'thank you's and 'please's are annoyingly adding to the verbosity of the bug reports!" said no small-scale open source software maintainer, ever.