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Etherium has already surpassed it in terms of network effect, and will likely have more value held on it's blockchain than bitcoin in a matter of years. Etheri

Etherium has already surpassed it in terms of network effect, and will likely have more value held on it's blockchain than bitcoin in a matter of years. Etherium is more oriented towards transactions than Bitcoin. In the longer term, the value of Blockchain will be in facilitating transactions. In this, it's 100% analogous to the Internet. The current crop of blockchain is dot.com, where we're still figuring things out. People will look back on it and think it quaint for analogous reasons. I think Harry Dent has a section in a book about this idea. An even bigger explosion of value will be created with the next wave analogous to "Web 2.0." No more multi-day dead tree transactions for settling checks, equities, real estate transactions, etc...

300bps 6y ago
Etherium is more oriented towards transactions than Bitcoin. Maybe Bitcoin is so much horrendously worse that makes what you said true but Ethereum is pretty terrible. Unless I’m missing something? If I want to send .001 ETH (i.e. $1.81) from my MEW wallet to my Coinbase wallet, I am charged $7.388 in fees if I want it confirmed in three minutes. If I’m not in a hurry and pick the slowest option that goes down to the low low price of $6.133. To send $1.81 from me to myself. These are network fees, not Coinbase (who will then charges me fees again to either sell or transfer the money). I love that there’s a link right on the transfer page of MEW that says, “Why are the fees so high?” that basically tells you it might get better someday but for now it’s how it is. I’ve been using Crypto since you could mine BTC with a GPU but I still don’t get what the use case is outside of illicit purchases and “buy it because it goes up.” Maybe I’m stupid.
- X6S1x6Okd1st 6y ago
  Etherum gas fees are horrendous right now, totally agree. In my opinion the work that is being done on scaling is much better on Etherum than on Bitcoin, and bitcoin really has a very limited capacity for smart contracts compred to bitcoin. In my opinion bitcoin, by not taking scaling seriously, has declared it's self as only good for store of value, L1 bitcoin seems like it won't really become any more efficient and essentially all L2 systems require 2 tx on L1. Etherum will scale L1 a bit more with allows overfull blocks and then much more when PoS rolls out.
  - rstuart4133 6y ago
    > essentially all L2 systems require 2 tx on L1. True. But once an L2 channel is anchored on L1 using those 2 L1 transactions it can support an unlimited number of L2 transactions, they take milliseconds to do, and an unlimited number can happen in parallel - all without any more L1 transactions. L1's main use is to become the place L2 channels are created. Creating 7 entire channels per second sounds like it should be more than enough.
arcticbull 6y ago
> No more multi-day dead tree transactions for settling checks, equities, real estate transactions, etc... Those things don't really exist right now, though. The US is moving from ACH to RTP for instant settlements, so the multi-day thing is gone. Checks aren't processed in paper terms, they're scanned and converted to ACH transactions - and soon RTP. Equities are instant and electronic. Real estate transactions are legal transactions, and for the once every 5 years you need to get a title company to record the deed is that really a big deal? The real burden isn't the title recording. There's absolutely no reason any of these things have to be achieved with a blockchain. There's absolutely no reason to think any of these things would even be better achieved with a blockchain. It's not analogous to the internet because the internet was fundamentally more efficient than what came before it, not less.
- stcredzero 6y ago
  Equities are instant and electronic. You can agree on a transaction instantly on a web page. But the actual confirmed trade comes the day after. Real estate transactions are legal transactions, and for the once every 5 years you need to get a title company to record the deed is that really a big deal? My wife works in banking, and yes, the cumbersome and primitive nature of this stuff introduces delays and opportunities for miscommunication that make it kinda a big deal. There's absolutely no reason any of these things have to be achieved with a blockchain. There's absolutely no reason to think any of these things would even be better achieved with a blockchain. It's not analogous to the internet because the internet was fundamentally more efficient than what came before it, not less. Dude, you clearly don't have any clue about how primitive lots of transactions still are. I'm glad that progress has been made in checking, but it seems like you only know about that, and have no clue what happens with title companies, and what banks have to go through to deal with them. Blockchain could clearly be better for that.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    > You can agree on a transaction instantly on a web page. But the actual confirmed trade comes the day after. Does that matter? That's why we have loans. > My wife works in banking, and yes, the cumbersome and primitive nature of this stuff introduces delays and opportunities for miscommunication that make it kinda a big deal. Lucky thanks to trust and centralization it can be resolved instead of lost forever. > Blockchain could clearly be better for that. Lots of non-blockchain things could clearly be better for that, too. Since centralization and trust represents a massive optimization, a non-blockchain solution by definition can be more efficient.

300bps 6y ago

Etherium is more oriented towards transactions than Bitcoin. Maybe Bitcoin is so much horrendously worse that makes what you said true but Ethereum is pretty terrible. Unless I’m missing something? If I want to send .001 ETH (i.e. $1.81) from my MEW wallet to my Coinbase wallet, I am charged $7.388 in fees if I want it confirmed in three minutes. If I’m not in a hurry and pick the slowest option that goes down to the low low price of $6.133. To send $1.81 from me to myself. These are network fees, not Coinbase (who will then charges me fees again to either sell or transfer the money). I love that there’s a link right on the transfer page of MEW that says, “Why are the fees so high?” that basically tells you it might get better someday but for now it’s how it is. I’ve been using Crypto since you could mine BTC with a GPU but I still don’t get what the use case is outside of illicit purchases and “buy it because it goes up.” Maybe I’m stupid.

X6S1x6Okd1st 6y ago
Etherum gas fees are horrendous right now, totally agree. In my opinion the work that is being done on scaling is much better on Etherum than on Bitcoin, and bitcoin really has a very limited capacity for smart contracts compred to bitcoin. In my opinion bitcoin, by not taking scaling seriously, has declared it's self as only good for store of value, L1 bitcoin seems like it won't really become any more efficient and essentially all L2 systems require 2 tx on L1. Etherum will scale L1 a bit more with allows overfull blocks and then much more when PoS rolls out.
- rstuart4133 6y ago
  > essentially all L2 systems require 2 tx on L1. True. But once an L2 channel is anchored on L1 using those 2 L1 transactions it can support an unlimited number of L2 transactions, they take milliseconds to do, and an unlimited number can happen in parallel - all without any more L1 transactions. L1's main use is to become the place L2 channels are created. Creating 7 entire channels per second sounds like it should be more than enough.

arcticbull 6y ago

> No more multi-day dead tree transactions for settling checks, equities, real estate transactions, etc... Those things don't really exist right now, though. The US is moving from ACH to RTP for instant settlements, so the multi-day thing is gone. Checks aren't processed in paper terms, they're scanned and converted to ACH transactions - and soon RTP. Equities are instant and electronic. Real estate transactions are legal transactions, and for the once every 5 years you need to get a title company to record the deed is that really a big deal? The real burden isn't the title recording. There's absolutely no reason any of these things have to be achieved with a blockchain. There's absolutely no reason to think any of these things would even be better achieved with a blockchain. It's not analogous to the internet because the internet was fundamentally more efficient than what came before it, not less.

stcredzero 6y ago
Equities are instant and electronic. You can agree on a transaction instantly on a web page. But the actual confirmed trade comes the day after. Real estate transactions are legal transactions, and for the once every 5 years you need to get a title company to record the deed is that really a big deal? My wife works in banking, and yes, the cumbersome and primitive nature of this stuff introduces delays and opportunities for miscommunication that make it kinda a big deal. There's absolutely no reason any of these things have to be achieved with a blockchain. There's absolutely no reason to think any of these things would even be better achieved with a blockchain. It's not analogous to the internet because the internet was fundamentally more efficient than what came before it, not less. Dude, you clearly don't have any clue about how primitive lots of transactions still are. I'm glad that progress has been made in checking, but it seems like you only know about that, and have no clue what happens with title companies, and what banks have to go through to deal with them. Blockchain could clearly be better for that.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  > You can agree on a transaction instantly on a web page. But the actual confirmed trade comes the day after. Does that matter? That's why we have loans. > My wife works in banking, and yes, the cumbersome and primitive nature of this stuff introduces delays and opportunities for miscommunication that make it kinda a big deal. Lucky thanks to trust and centralization it can be resolved instead of lost forever. > Blockchain could clearly be better for that. Lots of non-blockchain things could clearly be better for that, too. Since centralization and trust represents a massive optimization, a non-blockchain solution by definition can be more efficient.