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I grew up being bullied by people because I was different. I was a mess honestly, a weird, smelly kid who was a bit of an eyesore. These are people who were nic

by Noos 6y ago

I grew up being bullied by people because I was different. I was a mess honestly, a weird, smelly kid who was a bit of an eyesore. These are people who were nice to each other, and people who would have been seen as caring, loving and kind people to their families and others that liked them. I was even mocked by one of my teachers. Very few people think they are not forgiving, loving and caring. Many people will open the book, find the things that reassure them they are loving, caring, and a wise person, and close it happy. Your friends don't try to convert you because they hide themselves around you. If they tried, you would cut them out of your life, despite your empathy; just mentioning that you will pray for someone can make them angry. If they persisted, really believing their friend was in danger of losing eternal life, you would end the friendship. Really, all the stuff you say sounds nice, but secular people only show love to people who they think are lovable. When you become one of the unlovables, they will cheerfully drop what you say and bring out the knives, and your philosophy is worthless to stop it.

brundolf 6y ago
I don't want to minimize your experiences, but you're taking those experiences and projecting them onto people and things (both those I mentioned as well as entire categories) that aren't really tied to them. > people who would have been seen as caring, loving and kind people to their families and others that liked them Good and evil can exist within the same person. Evil can also masquerade externally with the signifiers of good. I don't know the people you're talking about so I can't really comment on them specifically; but being a human means being a paradox. Not that that excuses what happened to you. It sounds like that was very hard and I'm very sorry to hear about it. I can't really speak more to it or to the people involved because again, I don't know much about it. I simply don't believe that even the worst human on earth is irredeemable or worthless in principle, whether or not they ever change in practice. Of course that doesn't mean they should be left to get away with doing whatever they want to whomever. > Many people will open the book, find the things that reassure them they are loving, caring, and a wise person, and close it happy The other half of "nobody is completely good or evil" is that life is a never-finished journey of self-work. Doing what you describe is a trap that many people fall into, sure. But I don't think it invalidates the efforts of people who decide to do otherwise. > Your friends don't try to convert you because they hide themselves around you. If they tried, you would cut them out of your life, despite your empathy; just mentioning that you will pray for someone can make them angry. If they persisted, really believing their friend was in danger of losing eternal life, you would end the friendship. With respect, you don't know them. My parents, unlike my friends, do try periodically to convert me, and I haven't cut them out of my life. It causes friction between us, sure, and they've learned that and they've dampened it some. But we make the relationship work. When it comes my friends, I simply know they aren't hiding themselves. We talk openly about this stuff sometimes; we have good conversations. We don't avoid it like I have to with my parents. I don't mind when my friends say they'll pray for me, because I know they're saying it out of open love, and not passive-aggression. We respect each other's agency, we know we're on different journeys. I've known people who weren't that way. I've seen the hollowness of ulterior motives behind their smiles and their social gestures. I know the difference. Real relationships go beyond and above disagreements, and the ones I get to pick for myself are with individuals who can tolerate nuance and paradox. > Really, all the stuff you say sounds nice, but secular people only show love to people who they think are lovable. When you become one of the unlovables, they will cheerfully drop what you say and bring out the knives, and your philosophy is worthless to stop it. I'm not sure where this came from (though I'd be happy to hear more about it). Above you seemed to take issue with religious people, but here you mention secular (non-religious) people

by Noos 6y ago

brundolf 6y ago

I don't want to minimize your experiences, but you're taking those experiences and projecting them onto people and things (both those I mentioned as well as entire categories) that aren't really tied to them. > people who would have been seen as caring, loving and kind people to their families and others that liked them Good and evil can exist within the same person. Evil can also masquerade externally with the signifiers of good. I don't know the people you're talking about so I can't really comment on them specifically; but being a human means being a paradox. Not that that excuses what happened to you. It sounds like that was very hard and I'm very sorry to hear about it. I can't really speak more to it or to the people involved because again, I don't know much about it. I simply don't believe that even the worst human on earth is irredeemable or worthless in principle, whether or not they ever change in practice. Of course that doesn't mean they should be left to get away with doing whatever they want to whomever. > Many people will open the book, find the things that reassure them they are loving, caring, and a wise person, and close it happy The other half of "nobody is completely good or evil" is that life is a never-finished journey of self-work. Doing what you describe is a trap that many people fall into, sure. But I don't think it invalidates the efforts of people who decide to do otherwise. > Your friends don't try to convert you because they hide themselves around you. If they tried, you would cut them out of your life, despite your empathy; just mentioning that you will pray for someone can make them angry. If they persisted, really believing their friend was in danger of losing eternal life, you would end the friendship. With respect, you don't know them. My parents, unlike my friends, do try periodically to convert me, and I haven't cut them out of my life. It causes friction between us, sure, and they've learned that and they've dampened it some. But we make the relationship work. When it comes my friends, I simply know they aren't hiding themselves. We talk openly about this stuff sometimes; we have good conversations. We don't avoid it like I have to with my parents. I don't mind when my friends say they'll pray for me, because I know they're saying it out of open love, and not passive-aggression. We respect each other's agency, we know we're on different journeys. I've known people who weren't that way. I've seen the hollowness of ulterior motives behind their smiles and their social gestures. I know the difference. Real relationships go beyond and above disagreements, and the ones I get to pick for myself are with individuals who can tolerate nuance and paradox. > Really, all the stuff you say sounds nice, but secular people only show love to people who they think are lovable. When you become one of the unlovables, they will cheerfully drop what you say and bring out the knives, and your philosophy is worthless to stop it. I'm not sure where this came from (though I'd be happy to hear more about it). Above you seemed to take issue with religious people, but here you mention secular (non-religious) people