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I was raised Roman Catholic and attended Catholic schools until college. When I was in high school I recall having serious issues with what they were teaching.

I was raised Roman Catholic and attended Catholic schools until college. When I was in high school I recall having serious issues with what they were teaching. Here's a few of the gems they left me with: 1. You should only get married if you intended on having children. 2. If you were unable to have children, the marriage should be annulled. 3. Homosexuality was abhorrent and sinful. 4. Women should not obtain positions of power in the church. They used Adam and Eve to justify their position. Many years later I found out that the reason why my freshman year biology teacher left unexpectedly over the summer was because he had been shuffled to another location after molesting young boys. He was eventually imprisoned for this, after being extradited to Australia. The church and the school knew this but said nothing to the parents or the students and it was swept under the rug. It was complete silence until they were forced to say something at a point where those who were molested were fairly far into their lives. Thinking back on all of this still makes me angry today. A priest in my elementary school was brought in and then quietly and suddenly left a few months later and I am left with unanswered questions. I don't need that in my life. I don't need religion to be a moral person, and from my point of view the system that I was raised in was very far from moral. The Catholic church has done more to affirm my Atheist .. non-beliefs? .. than anything else.

philsnow 6y ago
> If you were unable to have children, the marriage should be annulled. This depends on a lot of things. If two people get married, and one of them already knows that they are sterile or for whatever reason cannot have children, but they don't reveal that to the other until after they are married, that is grounds for the other person to seek an annulment. This is not the same thing as saying that the marriage "should" be annulled. If on the other hand, knowledge of the person's sterility doesn't arise until after they are married, I don't think that's grounds for an annulment.
- fullstop 6y ago
  No, this was "if you can not conceive children you should be single." It wasn't about being hiding things from your spouse or anything like that.
  - philsnow 6y ago
    Oh, that's patently false. I'm sorry you were fed misinformation.
    - fullstop 6y ago
      What about the rest of my list? In the eyes of the Roman Catholic church women are still not equals, homosexuality is a sin, and a major purpose of marriage is still to bear children in the name of the lord.
      - philsnow 6y ago
        Women and men are not equal. We have equal human dignity, but for example our bodies are different. What level of "equality" would you be content with? Yes, the purpose of marriage is procreation. What else would its purpose be, a tax break? I don't know exactly what you mean about "bear children in the name of the lord", though. Personally, I see having and raising children as a way of bringing me closer to God, because being in the role of the father forces me to sacrifice for the kids. Every tiny sacrifice I make is a reminder of Christ's supreme sacrifice. There are a thousand ways being a father has made me humble. Both going from zero to one kid, and then going from one to more-than-one, showed me that it's possible to love more than one person with all my being / I didn't allocate my love among my spouse and kids, I have 100% for all of them. The Church doesn't say "Homosexuality is a sin". The misuse of the procreative faculty (by anybody, heterosexual, homosexual, etc etc) is a sin. It's exactly as grave a sin to use contraception, or to have an extra-marital affair, as it is to engage in homosexual acts. N.B. I'm just some guy with a keyboard. I'm not a canon lawyer nor a Church historian or anything like that. If and where I've gotten things wrong, I want to learn the truth.
        fullstop 6y ago
        > Women and men are not equal. We have equal human dignity, but for example our bodies are different. What level of "equality" would you be content with? How many women priests does the Roman Catholic church have? I'll give you a hint, it's ZERO. In fact, you will be excommunicated from the church if you ordain a woman as a priest. I think that equality there would be a good starting point. If the church can not condone women in equal positions of power, how can they possibly see the common man and woman as equals? > Yes, the purpose of marriage is procreation. What else would its purpose be, a tax break? Not in the slightest! It is a bond of commitment between two people. Even the "standard" marriage vows mention nothing about children or procreation. > The Church doesn't say "Homosexuality is a sin". The misuse of the procreative faculty (by anybody, heterosexual, homosexual, etc etc) is a sin. It's exactly as grave a sin to use contraception, or to have an extra-marital affair, as it is to engage in homosexual acts. This is where we disagree, hard. As long as two consenting adults agree, I do not care what they do with each other. So the church says that homosexuality is a not sin, but they can't have a sexual relationship with each other, they can't get married, and they are misusing their procreative faculty? That's equating homosexuality with sin but with extra steps. Serious question here -- what would you do if one of your children was gay? Would you tell them that they can't be married, can't adopt children, or that they are sinners? If so, how could you possibly be 100% for all of them? N.B. I'm just some married guy with a wife and a keyboard. I have two daughters, and I don't care or worry about their sexual preferences. I've known plenty of gay people throughout my life and feel that they deserve equal footing in the eyes of their peers, the law, and the church.

philsnow 6y ago

> If you were unable to have children, the marriage should be annulled. This depends on a lot of things. If two people get married, and one of them already knows that they are sterile or for whatever reason cannot have children, but they don't reveal that to the other until after they are married, that is grounds for the other person to seek an annulment. This is not the same thing as saying that the marriage "should" be annulled. If on the other hand, knowledge of the person's sterility doesn't arise until after they are married, I don't think that's grounds for an annulment.

fullstop 6y ago
No, this was "if you can not conceive children you should be single." It wasn't about being hiding things from your spouse or anything like that.
- philsnow 6y ago
  Oh, that's patently false. I'm sorry you were fed misinformation.
  - fullstop 6y ago
    What about the rest of my list? In the eyes of the Roman Catholic church women are still not equals, homosexuality is a sin, and a major purpose of marriage is still to bear children in the name of the lord.
    - philsnow 6y ago
      Women and men are not equal. We have equal human dignity, but for example our bodies are different. What level of "equality" would you be content with? Yes, the purpose of marriage is procreation. What else would its purpose be, a tax break? I don't know exactly what you mean about "bear children in the name of the lord", though. Personally, I see having and raising children as a way of bringing me closer to God, because being in the role of the father forces me to sacrifice for the kids. Every tiny sacrifice I make is a reminder of Christ's supreme sacrifice. There are a thousand ways being a father has made me humble. Both going from zero to one kid, and then going from one to more-than-one, showed me that it's possible to love more than one person with all my being / I didn't allocate my love among my spouse and kids, I have 100% for all of them. The Church doesn't say "Homosexuality is a sin". The misuse of the procreative faculty (by anybody, heterosexual, homosexual, etc etc) is a sin. It's exactly as grave a sin to use contraception, or to have an extra-marital affair, as it is to engage in homosexual acts. N.B. I'm just some guy with a keyboard. I'm not a canon lawyer nor a Church historian or anything like that. If and where I've gotten things wrong, I want to learn the truth.
      - fullstop 6y ago
        > Women and men are not equal. We have equal human dignity, but for example our bodies are different. What level of "equality" would you be content with? How many women priests does the Roman Catholic church have? I'll give you a hint, it's ZERO. In fact, you will be excommunicated from the church if you ordain a woman as a priest. I think that equality there would be a good starting point. If the church can not condone women in equal positions of power, how can they possibly see the common man and woman as equals? > Yes, the purpose of marriage is procreation. What else would its purpose be, a tax break? Not in the slightest! It is a bond of commitment between two people. Even the "standard" marriage vows mention nothing about children or procreation. > The Church doesn't say "Homosexuality is a sin". The misuse of the procreative faculty (by anybody, heterosexual, homosexual, etc etc) is a sin. It's exactly as grave a sin to use contraception, or to have an extra-marital affair, as it is to engage in homosexual acts. This is where we disagree, hard. As long as two consenting adults agree, I do not care what they do with each other. So the church says that homosexuality is a not sin, but they can't have a sexual relationship with each other, they can't get married, and they are misusing their procreative faculty? That's equating homosexuality with sin but with extra steps. Serious question here -- what would you do if one of your children was gay? Would you tell them that they can't be married, can't adopt children, or that they are sinners? If so, how could you possibly be 100% for all of them? N.B. I'm just some married guy with a wife and a keyboard. I have two daughters, and I don't care or worry about their sexual preferences. I've known plenty of gay people throughout my life and feel that they deserve equal footing in the eyes of their peers, the law, and the church.