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It's hard for me to see how you're reading Ephesians 5 in good faith. Wives submit to your husbands, husbands sacrifice your lives for your wives (like how Jesu

It's hard for me to see how you're reading Ephesians 5 in good faith. Wives submit to your husbands, husbands sacrifice your lives for your wives (like how Jesus ya know, was crucified for his Church). And you read this as misogynistic? This is not by far the most problematic Pauline passage in terms of male/female roles. Taken at face value this is some pretty deep advice for how to have a functioning marriage where two people need to make decisions for their family and don't necessarily see eye-to-eye on everything.

kaesar14 6y ago
Yes, the husband in a family making all the decisions as long as they respect their wife is for sure misogynistic. Your interpretation of this being advice for a family to function even when they don't see eye to eye everything makes no sense to me. So if a man and woman in a marriage don't see eye to eye on an issue, the man makes the decision as long as he's kind to his wife? A wife may have her opinion, but really she has to submit in all things to their husband? I'm all for husbands loving their wives, but maybe text that clearly says that men have the power of decision making in a household could be interpreted as meaning...men have the power in a relationship.
- f154hfds 6y ago
  Perhaps we're working with two different definitions of misogyny? "hatred of, aversion to, or prejudice against women" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/misogyny https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/misogyny Where does power come into it exactly?
  - kaesar14 6y ago
    Power has everything to do with prejudice. Divinely ordaining men with the power of the household is prejudice against women.
    - f154hfds 6y ago
      'Power' in the Christian context is quite a lot different from your impression I think: > And Jesus called them to him and said to them, “You know that those who are considered rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. But it shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be slave of all. For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” Mark 10:42-45 To read Ephesians 5 without this in the background is totally misconstruing the text.
      - kaesar14 6y ago
        How does that contradict the idea that ultimately women are to submit to the will of men in the household?
coliveira 6y ago
Your explanation doesn't make sense because the roles are unequal. The text requires sacrifice from men but subservience from women, creating a hierarchy of powers inside the family. Your interpretation would be acceptable if the text said that both women and men had to sacrifice and submit to each other.

kaesar14 6y ago

Yes, the husband in a family making all the decisions as long as they respect their wife is for sure misogynistic. Your interpretation of this being advice for a family to function even when they don't see eye to eye everything makes no sense to me. So if a man and woman in a marriage don't see eye to eye on an issue, the man makes the decision as long as he's kind to his wife? A wife may have her opinion, but really she has to submit in all things to their husband? I'm all for husbands loving their wives, but maybe text that clearly says that men have the power of decision making in a household could be interpreted as meaning...men have the power in a relationship.

f154hfds 6y ago
Perhaps we're working with two different definitions of misogyny? "hatred of, aversion to, or prejudice against women" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/misogyny https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/misogyny Where does power come into it exactly?
- kaesar14 6y ago
  Power has everything to do with prejudice. Divinely ordaining men with the power of the household is prejudice against women.
  - f154hfds 6y ago
    'Power' in the Christian context is quite a lot different from your impression I think: > And Jesus called them to him and said to them, “You know that those who are considered rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. But it shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be slave of all. For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” Mark 10:42-45 To read Ephesians 5 without this in the background is totally misconstruing the text.
    - kaesar14 6y ago
      How does that contradict the idea that ultimately women are to submit to the will of men in the household?

coliveira 6y ago

Your explanation doesn't make sense because the roles are unequal. The text requires sacrifice from men but subservience from women, creating a hierarchy of powers inside the family. Your interpretation would be acceptable if the text said that both women and men had to sacrifice and submit to each other.