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Idk, man... about two years ago, I heard an evangelical dude say Catholics aren’t even Christians. As a Catholic, I found it a bit startling to learn that I

Idk, man... about two years ago, I heard an evangelical dude say Catholics aren’t even Christians. As a Catholic, I found it a bit startling to learn that I am - by default - going to hell.

reducesuffering 6y ago
Pop by r/catholic and you'll come across some people's hush-hush Catholic views that Martin Luther was evil by leading away millions to eternal damnation because there's no salvation outside The Catholic Church.
- germinalphrase 6y ago
  No doubt. I’ve known some pretty insulated, hateful Catholics.
  - slumdev 6y ago
    The Church has always taught that schism and heresy are mortal sins, and the teaching hasn't changed, even if most clergy don't talk about it.
boomboomsubban 6y ago
Catholicism also teaches that every non-Catholic person is going to hell.
- epistasis 6y ago
  Catholicism isn't monolithic apparently, because that does not appear to be the first answer in a web search: https://www.catholic.com/qa/do-non-catholic-christians-go-to-heaven https://www.catholic.com/qa/do-non-catholic-christians-go-to...
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    This says non-Catholics who have not committed a mortal sin can go to heaven, which includes "have no other God before me." Further, I'm pretty sure they consider the sacrament of baptism necessary to go to heaven, defacto ruling out every non-catholic. edit I'm apparently somewhat misremembering things, and any non-catholic without a mortal sin has a supposed chance, but I still would say that rules out all non-catholics.
- relaxing 6y ago
  That’s not true. It was long debated, and finally clarified in the Vatican II (in the mid 1960s.) Any Catholic still saying that today is going against the Church.
- slumdev 6y ago
  To be a little more precise, Catholicism teaches that every person in Heaven is a Catholic (even if they weren't necessarily a Catholic on earth.) It admits baptism by desire and the possibility of salvation of those who are invincibly ignorant. But, at the same time, Catholic tradition has always maintained that even most Catholics end up in Hell. There's even biblical support for the idea in the "wide"/"narrow gate" language of the Gospels. So, if Catholicism is the one true Faith, and even most Catholics end up in Hell, why would anyone reason that those outside of the one true Faith have good odds?
meepmorp 6y ago
Was it because the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon from Revelations, or because it's secretly a pagan religion that worships Saints and the Virgin Mary as gods? I love the rationales people put forward for that kind of stuff. For a Guy purportedly trying to bring salvation to humanity, some Jesus's followers do seem to relish opportunities to keep the everyone they can out of the Kingdom.
- mulmen 6y ago
  I have been told the same thing. In my case it was just that they didn't know other forms of Christianity existed other than their own.
- Igelau 6y ago
  > a pagan religion that worships Saints and the Virgin Mary as gods Sometimes I put on my 2edgy4u atheist cap and needle my lapsed-Catholic wife with that notion. It looks like a duck and a quacks like a duck, call it veneration if you like -- it's still a duck. And I do point out that there's nothing wrong with that. Given the choices I'd rather worship a once-mortal mother goddess than a tripartite sky-father who spends most of the book being terrible.
Rule35 6y ago
You don't know, they might be of the opinion that a good life dedicated to Jesus may be enough, regardless of how you dress it up. But, from outside, they appear to be at least half right. The catholic church seems to be less CHRISTian and more ... Trinity-ian. I assume it's a fairly large difference on the ground as one is all about a single person, born a regular man, who brings forgiveness for unintentional sins. The other, a story about a much more conscious god who manifests himself in a young body and proceeds to lecture on morality and the afterlife.

Idk, man... about two years ago, I heard an evangelical dude say Catholics aren’t even Christians. As a Catholic, I found it a bit startling to learn that I am - by default - going to hell.

reducesuffering 6y ago

Pop by r/catholic and you'll come across some people's hush-hush Catholic views that Martin Luther was evil by leading away millions to eternal damnation because there's no salvation outside The Catholic Church.

germinalphrase 6y ago
No doubt. I’ve known some pretty insulated, hateful Catholics.
- slumdev 6y ago
  The Church has always taught that schism and heresy are mortal sins, and the teaching hasn't changed, even if most clergy don't talk about it.

boomboomsubban 6y ago

Catholicism also teaches that every non-Catholic person is going to hell.

epistasis 6y ago
Catholicism isn't monolithic apparently, because that does not appear to be the first answer in a web search: https://www.catholic.com/qa/do-non-catholic-christians-go-to-heaven https://www.catholic.com/qa/do-non-catholic-christians-go-to...
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  This says non-Catholics who have not committed a mortal sin can go to heaven, which includes "have no other God before me." Further, I'm pretty sure they consider the sacrament of baptism necessary to go to heaven, defacto ruling out every non-catholic. edit I'm apparently somewhat misremembering things, and any non-catholic without a mortal sin has a supposed chance, but I still would say that rules out all non-catholics.
relaxing 6y ago
That’s not true. It was long debated, and finally clarified in the Vatican II (in the mid 1960s.) Any Catholic still saying that today is going against the Church.
slumdev 6y ago
To be a little more precise, Catholicism teaches that every person in Heaven is a Catholic (even if they weren't necessarily a Catholic on earth.) It admits baptism by desire and the possibility of salvation of those who are invincibly ignorant. But, at the same time, Catholic tradition has always maintained that even most Catholics end up in Hell. There's even biblical support for the idea in the "wide"/"narrow gate" language of the Gospels. So, if Catholicism is the one true Faith, and even most Catholics end up in Hell, why would anyone reason that those outside of the one true Faith have good odds?

meepmorp 6y ago

Was it because the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon from Revelations, or because it's secretly a pagan religion that worships Saints and the Virgin Mary as gods? I love the rationales people put forward for that kind of stuff. For a Guy purportedly trying to bring salvation to humanity, some Jesus's followers do seem to relish opportunities to keep the everyone they can out of the Kingdom.

mulmen 6y ago
I have been told the same thing. In my case it was just that they didn't know other forms of Christianity existed other than their own.
Igelau 6y ago
> a pagan religion that worships Saints and the Virgin Mary as gods Sometimes I put on my 2edgy4u atheist cap and needle my lapsed-Catholic wife with that notion. It looks like a duck and a quacks like a duck, call it veneration if you like -- it's still a duck. And I do point out that there's nothing wrong with that. Given the choices I'd rather worship a once-mortal mother goddess than a tripartite sky-father who spends most of the book being terrible.

Rule35 6y ago

You don't know, they might be of the opinion that a good life dedicated to Jesus may be enough, regardless of how you dress it up. But, from outside, they appear to be at least half right. The catholic church seems to be less CHRISTian and more ... Trinity-ian. I assume it's a fairly large difference on the ground as one is all about a single person, born a regular man, who brings forgiveness for unintentional sins. The other, a story about a much more conscious god who manifests himself in a young body and proceeds to lecture on morality and the afterlife.