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I take issue with this article because it would come across to me as a red flag about work-life balance. That an employer would expect you to be doing something

I take issue with this article because it would come across to me as a red flag about work-life balance. That an employer would expect you to be doing something programming related in your spare time comes across as a bit self-serving. --------------- I think you're reading too much into it ... I've been doing this for 7 years (not that long) and without fail all the really good developers I've ever known or met have built something in their spare time ... just for kicks, a webserver, a firefox addon, some game, a ruby gem, PHP script, a macro for their favorite editor, some electronic gizmo ... something. Not all developers do it, but the very best do ... so its not a disqualifying question, but it sure does allow you zero in on the very best developers rather easily. As an aside ... you should always be looking at code, when you're hiring developers. If they can't give you any examples, then make them write something ... I'm continually shocked by how many companies make $70+k investments in people they've never seen in action.

irahul 15y ago
I know some very good developers who didn't do anything in their spare time. One of them was co-inventor of gif format, another was a core contributor to cygwin gdb and so on. But that was all before their day job. When they started their day jobs, that's all they did. Would you discard them as "not so good" because they don't do anything in their spare time and they concentrate on task on hand? Some people have more demanding jobs and/or prefer to work on their day job in their spare time - not because someone is putting a gun on their head, but because they like doing what they do. Why would they bother with side projects when they already have real life projects? Impressing the interviewer isn't on their agenda and all other aspects viz. gratification, joy of creation are the same.
- trustfundbaby 15y ago
  One of them was co-inventor of gif format, another was a cygwin to contributor to cygwin gdb and so on. But that was all before their day job. Would you discard them as "not so good" because they don't do anything in their spare time? ----------------------------------- No, because their prior accomplishments speak for themselves. You need to stop looking at it as some yardstick to get over and understand that it is simply an informal measure of a developer's passion and drive, just because you don't do it doesn't mean "you suck. NO HIRE!"
  - irahul 15y ago
    > No, because their prior accomplishments speak for themselves. I just quoted examples where their prior accomplishments was public. There were many whose prior accomplishments are not public and were for their employers. > simply an informal measure of a developer's passion and drive. I don't have a problem with using side projects as informal projects as informal measure of passion. I have a problem with your assertion that all good developers have side projects. I have worked with quite a few and most of them didn't.
    - trustfundbaby 15y ago
      what I said was "all the really good developers I've ever known or met have built something in their spare time" you took that to mean that I saying that ALL good developers have side projects ... I'm not stating that as an empirical fact, and if you read the comments I've left its clear that I understand that.
bh42222 15y ago
Maybe I'm not just that good of a developer. The last time I did something in my spare time was college. Ever since I have not gone more then a few precious weeks without being employed as a software engineer full time. And I had to fight for those weeks BETWEEN jobs! Once I'm done with work, finding myself in front of a computer again, is the last thing I want to do. I have lots of projects I plan to get to when I'm in between jobs for a while, you know like in a recession. Too bad in this recession I was hired before I had a chance to leave the parking lot of my previous employer. So yes, I guess I'm just not that good of a developer.
- trustfundbaby 15y ago
  Maybe I'm not just that good of a developer. -------------------------- I should have realized that once you start subjectively talking about developer proficiency, people get defensive. Side projects, in my opinion, are an indicator of developer skill, passion and drive ... they are not the only indicator. Now if you and a guy come into my office looking for a gig and you all compare equally on paper and I like you both, but one guy hacked together a Hacker News firefox extension on the weekend because he wanted to play with the Mozilla addon api and you have nothing ... I'm picking the guy with the addon, and I don't think I need to apologize for that.
  - bh42222 15y ago
    I don't hire anyone without a code sample. The difference between my crutch and your crutch is that mine makes no implication that you're not at good as someone who codes in their spare time.

irahul 15y ago

I know some very good developers who didn't do anything in their spare time. One of them was co-inventor of gif format, another was a core contributor to cygwin gdb and so on. But that was all before their day job. When they started their day jobs, that's all they did. Would you discard them as "not so good" because they don't do anything in their spare time and they concentrate on task on hand? Some people have more demanding jobs and/or prefer to work on their day job in their spare time - not because someone is putting a gun on their head, but because they like doing what they do. Why would they bother with side projects when they already have real life projects? Impressing the interviewer isn't on their agenda and all other aspects viz. gratification, joy of creation are the same.

trustfundbaby 15y ago
One of them was co-inventor of gif format, another was a cygwin to contributor to cygwin gdb and so on. But that was all before their day job. Would you discard them as "not so good" because they don't do anything in their spare time? ----------------------------------- No, because their prior accomplishments speak for themselves. You need to stop looking at it as some yardstick to get over and understand that it is simply an informal measure of a developer's passion and drive, just because you don't do it doesn't mean "you suck. NO HIRE!"
- irahul 15y ago
  > No, because their prior accomplishments speak for themselves. I just quoted examples where their prior accomplishments was public. There were many whose prior accomplishments are not public and were for their employers. > simply an informal measure of a developer's passion and drive. I don't have a problem with using side projects as informal projects as informal measure of passion. I have a problem with your assertion that all good developers have side projects. I have worked with quite a few and most of them didn't.
  - trustfundbaby 15y ago
    what I said was "all the really good developers I've ever known or met have built something in their spare time" you took that to mean that I saying that ALL good developers have side projects ... I'm not stating that as an empirical fact, and if you read the comments I've left its clear that I understand that.

bh42222 15y ago

Maybe I'm not just that good of a developer. The last time I did something in my spare time was college. Ever since I have not gone more then a few precious weeks without being employed as a software engineer full time. And I had to fight for those weeks BETWEEN jobs! Once I'm done with work, finding myself in front of a computer again, is the last thing I want to do. I have lots of projects I plan to get to when I'm in between jobs for a while, you know like in a recession. Too bad in this recession I was hired before I had a chance to leave the parking lot of my previous employer. So yes, I guess I'm just not that good of a developer.

trustfundbaby 15y ago
Maybe I'm not just that good of a developer. -------------------------- I should have realized that once you start subjectively talking about developer proficiency, people get defensive. Side projects, in my opinion, are an indicator of developer skill, passion and drive ... they are not the only indicator. Now if you and a guy come into my office looking for a gig and you all compare equally on paper and I like you both, but one guy hacked together a Hacker News firefox extension on the weekend because he wanted to play with the Mozilla addon api and you have nothing ... I'm picking the guy with the addon, and I don't think I need to apologize for that.
- bh42222 15y ago
  I don't hire anyone without a code sample. The difference between my crutch and your crutch is that mine makes no implication that you're not at good as someone who codes in their spare time.