6 ms·

Conversely, imagine living in a lovely small town that has an active social life and a commercial scene, fuelled by the scores of people moving out there with n

by wcarss 6y ago

Conversely, imagine living in a lovely small town that has an active social life and a commercial scene, fuelled by the scores of people moving out there with nothing better to do in the evenings, who want to get out of the house. People who don't spend all their energy commuting into and out of a city each day, people who are free from the crowded lonelinesses of the subway, and the hyper-busy trendy weekend coffee-shop. Imagine a world where you might once again say hello to your neighbours, might know the folks around town. New friends we don't work with -- perhaps, a community! If we play it right, we might possibly swing a revitalization of our social soul here, rather than sadly slouch ever further toward its final demise. At least, I hope.

decafninja 6y ago
I still remember getting my first Manhattan job. I was excited about experiencing the culture and nightlife of the city after work. Little did I know that the toll of the commute would quickly kill off any such interest. I feel this is especially because of the peculiarities of the Manhattan commute (and potentially other cities with similar commute patterns). I was nowhere near as beaten up when I commuted in NJ. But all the hot jobs (and culture!) are in Manhattan. Ironically I had more energy to head out into the city after work from NJ.
softwaredoug 6y ago
I live in a smallish town. One positive side effect of pandemic and WFH is more socializing with neighbors. Kinda a different form of socializing, but it is a positive upside.
sokoloff 6y ago
At the risk of sounding picky, I am statistically much more interested in socializing with a randomly chosen person from this website than a randomly chosen person from my town (excluding my household). Even my kids’ friends’ parents are often tedious to hang out with. “Can you believe <insert thing from popular TV>?” Or some town gossip that is interesting only to the other half of the conversation. I have non-work friends, most of which I met locally, but there’s a common interest beyond “you happen to get your mail delivered by the same person”. Work socializing has some advantages for introverts. You don’t generally have a lack of topics to discuss; if one gets boring, you can switch to another.
- fhifjfhjjjk 6y ago
  You are sounding picky and you are projecting the problems specific to your life on the rest of us. We don't all want to be your friend, we want to avoid the rat race.
  - cauliflower2718 6y ago
    Not to be unfriendly, but perhaps _you're_ projecting your desire to avoid your coworkers on to others. I think both you and the person you responded to make interesting points, both of which I can see myself relating to at different parts of my life, depending on how much I liked my work vs my local community.
- jedberg 6y ago
  > Even my kids’ friends’ parents are often tedious to hang out with. I consider myself very lucky to live in the Bay Area, where most of my kids' friend's parents also work in tech. So hanging out at a random birthday party ends up being an unintentional networking event, where I get to meet new people working on cool tech. I wonder as remote work continues to be popular, if that will continue.
  - decafninja 6y ago
    Some people find what you describe as undesirable, but I think I'd love it. Possibly a grass is greener on the other side situation though, I admit. In NYC, I'd say there is a lot more diversity in terms of industries people work in, but tech is noticeably a tiny minority. Finance is obviously huge - and is probably the industry closest to being in the situation you describe. Case in point - I am, and have been part of, various social organizations, and AFAIK I'm the only SWE I've encountered. Tons of finance people, tons of medical professionals (though interestingly enough, many many dentists and nurses but M.D.s are rare), tons of people in marketing and education. But no SWEs. A tiny handful of tech professionals from the helpdesk/sysadmin/networkadmin side of things.
- qqqwerty 6y ago
  It also has some major disadvantages. Folks can get fired or laid off if the business goes south. You are competing with those same friends for promotions. And the HR department gets the final word on what is considered appropriate behavior. Much better to just connect with people that share your same interests outside of work. Join a club, go to a meetup, etc... And quite frankly, when it comes to more technical matters, I find online conversation to be much more fulfilling than IRL. And there are no shortage of outlets for that, including HN.
Mediterraneo10 6y ago
> Imagine a world where you might once again say hello to your neighbours When people complain about social isolation, that still doesn’t necessarily mean that they want to interact with their neighbours. It could just mean that they want to be able to interact with people who, they know for sure, share the same hobbies and interests and (in polarized countries) the same political and social views. One of the supposed upsides of urban modernity is the ability to choose one’s acquaintances at will, which is potentially liberating from the gossip and judgement of small-town and neighbourly communities, especially for sexual or other minorities.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  > Imagine a world where you might once again say hello to your neighbours That world never went away. It's just a couple tax brackets below the typical HN user.
  - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    No, that world definitely went away in some places, even for the urban poor. For instance, residents of apartment blocks in the large Finnish cities today typically don't know their neighbors. (In fact, some would even consider it a faux pas to leave the flat without first checking through the peephole to see if someone else is in the corridor. This is because it could make both you and your neighbor uncomfortable if you passed by one another.) The literature of a century ago with its tales of frequent neighborly interaction now strikes people as a completely different world regardless of their tax bracket.
    - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
      You're right, it did go away for the poor who are thoroughly under the thumb of the wealthy. Many of the less well off residents of (for example) Boston or DC would relate to that sort of "trying to keep your existence on the down low lest you draw the ire of someone who will make your life harder" pattern of action. Places like Cleveland, Buffalo, or anywhere that the local culture if free of thinking highly of the local culture people are much more open and friendly than major metros and their high class suburbs.
Rubayo 6y ago
Very interesting comment. Actually Michael Maccoby a sociologist discovered in his studies (1960 and 1970s) of what happens when a large factory comes to a rural town. People would no longer mix with each other to the same extent. Instead, after work, they would go home and watch TV. Work had totally altered their social lives. It will be interesting what dynamic will play out in the long-term with remote work.

by wcarss 6y ago

decafninja 6y ago

I still remember getting my first Manhattan job. I was excited about experiencing the culture and nightlife of the city after work. Little did I know that the toll of the commute would quickly kill off any such interest. I feel this is especially because of the peculiarities of the Manhattan commute (and potentially other cities with similar commute patterns). I was nowhere near as beaten up when I commuted in NJ. But all the hot jobs (and culture!) are in Manhattan. Ironically I had more energy to head out into the city after work from NJ.

softwaredoug 6y ago

I live in a smallish town. One positive side effect of pandemic and WFH is more socializing with neighbors. Kinda a different form of socializing, but it is a positive upside.

sokoloff 6y ago

At the risk of sounding picky, I am statistically much more interested in socializing with a randomly chosen person from this website than a randomly chosen person from my town (excluding my household). Even my kids’ friends’ parents are often tedious to hang out with. “Can you believe <insert thing from popular TV>?” Or some town gossip that is interesting only to the other half of the conversation. I have non-work friends, most of which I met locally, but there’s a common interest beyond “you happen to get your mail delivered by the same person”. Work socializing has some advantages for introverts. You don’t generally have a lack of topics to discuss; if one gets boring, you can switch to another.

fhifjfhjjjk 6y ago
You are sounding picky and you are projecting the problems specific to your life on the rest of us. We don't all want to be your friend, we want to avoid the rat race.
- cauliflower2718 6y ago
  Not to be unfriendly, but perhaps _you're_ projecting your desire to avoid your coworkers on to others. I think both you and the person you responded to make interesting points, both of which I can see myself relating to at different parts of my life, depending on how much I liked my work vs my local community.
jedberg 6y ago
> Even my kids’ friends’ parents are often tedious to hang out with. I consider myself very lucky to live in the Bay Area, where most of my kids' friend's parents also work in tech. So hanging out at a random birthday party ends up being an unintentional networking event, where I get to meet new people working on cool tech. I wonder as remote work continues to be popular, if that will continue.
- decafninja 6y ago
  Some people find what you describe as undesirable, but I think I'd love it. Possibly a grass is greener on the other side situation though, I admit. In NYC, I'd say there is a lot more diversity in terms of industries people work in, but tech is noticeably a tiny minority. Finance is obviously huge - and is probably the industry closest to being in the situation you describe. Case in point - I am, and have been part of, various social organizations, and AFAIK I'm the only SWE I've encountered. Tons of finance people, tons of medical professionals (though interestingly enough, many many dentists and nurses but M.D.s are rare), tons of people in marketing and education. But no SWEs. A tiny handful of tech professionals from the helpdesk/sysadmin/networkadmin side of things.
qqqwerty 6y ago
It also has some major disadvantages. Folks can get fired or laid off if the business goes south. You are competing with those same friends for promotions. And the HR department gets the final word on what is considered appropriate behavior. Much better to just connect with people that share your same interests outside of work. Join a club, go to a meetup, etc... And quite frankly, when it comes to more technical matters, I find online conversation to be much more fulfilling than IRL. And there are no shortage of outlets for that, including HN.

Mediterraneo10 6y ago

> Imagine a world where you might once again say hello to your neighbours When people complain about social isolation, that still doesn’t necessarily mean that they want to interact with their neighbours. It could just mean that they want to be able to interact with people who, they know for sure, share the same hobbies and interests and (in polarized countries) the same political and social views. One of the supposed upsides of urban modernity is the ability to choose one’s acquaintances at will, which is potentially liberating from the gossip and judgement of small-town and neighbourly communities, especially for sexual or other minorities.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
> Imagine a world where you might once again say hello to your neighbours That world never went away. It's just a couple tax brackets below the typical HN user.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  No, that world definitely went away in some places, even for the urban poor. For instance, residents of apartment blocks in the large Finnish cities today typically don't know their neighbors. (In fact, some would even consider it a faux pas to leave the flat without first checking through the peephole to see if someone else is in the corridor. This is because it could make both you and your neighbor uncomfortable if you passed by one another.) The literature of a century ago with its tales of frequent neighborly interaction now strikes people as a completely different world regardless of their tax bracket.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    You're right, it did go away for the poor who are thoroughly under the thumb of the wealthy. Many of the less well off residents of (for example) Boston or DC would relate to that sort of "trying to keep your existence on the down low lest you draw the ire of someone who will make your life harder" pattern of action. Places like Cleveland, Buffalo, or anywhere that the local culture if free of thinking highly of the local culture people are much more open and friendly than major metros and their high class suburbs.

Rubayo 6y ago

Very interesting comment. Actually Michael Maccoby a sociologist discovered in his studies (1960 and 1970s) of what happens when a large factory comes to a rural town. People would no longer mix with each other to the same extent. Instead, after work, they would go home and watch TV. Work had totally altered their social lives. It will be interesting what dynamic will play out in the long-term with remote work.