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I wouldn't assume beach lifeguarding to be an easy job, and I would expect a job that puts my life at risk to compensate me fairly for that risk. The overtime n

I wouldn't assume beach lifeguarding to be an easy job, and I would expect a job that puts my life at risk to compensate me fairly for that risk. The overtime numbers are concerning, however, since the last thing I would want is to have exhausted lifeguards on duty.

np_tedious 6y ago
I did this in New York when I was younger. Not as highly paid, and shorter seasons of course. The common thread I see here is that the pay scales with seniority/leadership more than with risk. The main difference is that this can be someone's career in LA, whereas in New York it's more or a seasonal supplemental (usually only teachers are longtimers) thing.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Sebguer 6y ago
  Speaking of New York, they've had their own lifeguard controversies (a lot more legitimate than the one this guard is trying to imply) https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/peter-stein-nyc-lifeguards.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/peter-stein-nyc-life...
yostrovs 6y ago
I doubt that the risk to lifeguards, that have a flotation device with them, approaches anything experienced by fire fighters, cops, truck drivers, etc. As noted in the article, valor in rescues doesn't seem to correlate with pay. The danger is mostly from sun exposure. This is outrageous, frankly. The job is really not that hard.
- zacharycohn 6y ago
  Did you read the article? > Macko jumped into the rough waters in a remote Palos Verdes gorge and pulled a man to safety through potentially skull-crushing swells and over razor-sharp rocks.
  - syspec 6y ago
    Did you read the article? > The 2020 Medal of Valor winner, Edward “Nick” Macko, an ocean lifeguard specialist, earned “only” $134,144 in compensation.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    Most lifeguards will never be put in a situation like that hence why he was officially recognized for going above and beyond.
jsharp 6y ago
Do we really think the top lifeguard in LA is putting his life at risk? More like managing the lifeguards doing the tough work. And being a lifeguard itself isn't even a dangerous job. Not even the top 25 most dangerous according to this chart. And notice that all of these people make 1/4 to way less than these lifeguards... https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-united-states https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-j...
- yostrovs 6y ago
  I'm surprised that small engine mechanics are #18 and supervisors of mechanics are #19. Since the two are so closely correlated, perhaps this is caused by duels or something violently similar, between mechanics and supervisors of mechanics. It just seems it shouldn't be life-threateningly dangerous to be a small engine mechanic.
  - jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
    It'll be car crashes. Any job where you're in the field around vehicles will be pretty dangerous. It's why garbage collectors and delivery drivers are high on that list too. Cars are very convenient, and necessary in many places. But we really underestimate just how dangerous they are, and how bad the US is at regulating them. Our society is nearly identical to Canada, yet we have twice the traffic fatality rate. Something has gone very wrong with US car culture.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > Do we really think the top lifeguard in LA is putting his life at risk? Risk is meaningful to this discussion in that it deters people from taking the job. That reduces supply and boosts price. I don’t think lifeguards are paid a premium for being supply constrained. California has a public sector compensation problem. (In particular, its unwillingness to investigate overtime fraud.) But estimating pay solely based on how dangerous the job is won’t be accurate.
  - jsharp 6y ago
briffle 6y ago
The second person on the chart has base pay of 140k, and overtime of 131k. If they have 1.5 overtime rate, then that is an AVERAGE of 62 hours a week, every week.
- dls2016 6y ago
  I know utility workers that make over $250k/year due to extreme overtime. Often a sticking point with their salaried management. It's not a lifestyle I would choose, but I can see the allure of being top dog in a close knit team. I heard an NPR interview the other day with a CA firefighter. He basically admitted to working so much because 1) he didn't know how to function at home with his family and 2) he was a respected crew chief. When you're "married to the sea" you have a routine of people getting your coffee, etc., that I'm sure you don't receive at home.
Shivetya 6y ago
Easy or not, the pay numbers are obscene regardless. Let alone how many employees are in the 100k club. The danger is how much this contributes to their retirement payout. California had to change the law to prevent ridiculous retirement payouts and that is where the ire belongs. There is no logic to public employees pulling down 100k retirements but this is where we are. People bemoan private employer payouts need to be watching their backs as they are fleeced by public employee salaries, boosted by overtime and other bonuses, and then their retirements. My favorite is Forbes's work on Illinois 100k club[1] Look, the average pension for many public servants is not all that grand, it is the big money people who are fleecing not only the tax payers but other public service retirees. There is every reason a retiree should have a good retirement payout but when you start getting into multiples of what the average income of someone in your state is someone needs to step back and say, what gives. Let alone the pension debt Illinois carries - this is not uncommon across the country [0]https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/the-state-worker/article233539467.html https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/the-state-wo... [1]https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2018/10/26/illinois-100000-club-94000-six-figure-public-employees-and-retirees-cost-taxpayers-12b/?sh=3b0325ab481a https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2018/10/26/ill... [2] https://www.illinoispolicy.org/moodys-report-illinois-pension-debt-reaches-record-high-317-billion/ https://www.illinoispolicy.org/moodys-report-illinois-pensio...

np_tedious 6y ago

I did this in New York when I was younger. Not as highly paid, and shorter seasons of course. The common thread I see here is that the pay scales with seniority/leadership more than with risk. The main difference is that this can be someone's career in LA, whereas in New York it's more or a seasonal supplemental (usually only teachers are longtimers) thing.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Sebguer 6y ago
Speaking of New York, they've had their own lifeguard controversies (a lot more legitimate than the one this guard is trying to imply) https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/peter-stein-nyc-lifeguards.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/peter-stein-nyc-life...

yostrovs 6y ago

I doubt that the risk to lifeguards, that have a flotation device with them, approaches anything experienced by fire fighters, cops, truck drivers, etc. As noted in the article, valor in rescues doesn't seem to correlate with pay. The danger is mostly from sun exposure. This is outrageous, frankly. The job is really not that hard.

zacharycohn 6y ago
Did you read the article? > Macko jumped into the rough waters in a remote Palos Verdes gorge and pulled a man to safety through potentially skull-crushing swells and over razor-sharp rocks.
- syspec 6y ago
  Did you read the article? > The 2020 Medal of Valor winner, Edward “Nick” Macko, an ocean lifeguard specialist, earned “only” $134,144 in compensation.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  Most lifeguards will never be put in a situation like that hence why he was officially recognized for going above and beyond.

jsharp 6y ago

Do we really think the top lifeguard in LA is putting his life at risk? More like managing the lifeguards doing the tough work. And being a lifeguard itself isn't even a dangerous job. Not even the top 25 most dangerous according to this chart. And notice that all of these people make 1/4 to way less than these lifeguards... https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-united-states https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-j...

yostrovs 6y ago
I'm surprised that small engine mechanics are #18 and supervisors of mechanics are #19. Since the two are so closely correlated, perhaps this is caused by duels or something violently similar, between mechanics and supervisors of mechanics. It just seems it shouldn't be life-threateningly dangerous to be a small engine mechanic.
- jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
  It'll be car crashes. Any job where you're in the field around vehicles will be pretty dangerous. It's why garbage collectors and delivery drivers are high on that list too. Cars are very convenient, and necessary in many places. But we really underestimate just how dangerous they are, and how bad the US is at regulating them. Our society is nearly identical to Canada, yet we have twice the traffic fatality rate. Something has gone very wrong with US car culture.
JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> Do we really think the top lifeguard in LA is putting his life at risk? Risk is meaningful to this discussion in that it deters people from taking the job. That reduces supply and boosts price. I don’t think lifeguards are paid a premium for being supply constrained. California has a public sector compensation problem. (In particular, its unwillingness to investigate overtime fraud.) But estimating pay solely based on how dangerous the job is won’t be accurate.
- jsharp 6y ago

briffle 6y ago

The second person on the chart has base pay of 140k, and overtime of 131k. If they have 1.5 overtime rate, then that is an AVERAGE of 62 hours a week, every week.

dls2016 6y ago
I know utility workers that make over $250k/year due to extreme overtime. Often a sticking point with their salaried management. It's not a lifestyle I would choose, but I can see the allure of being top dog in a close knit team. I heard an NPR interview the other day with a CA firefighter. He basically admitted to working so much because 1) he didn't know how to function at home with his family and 2) he was a respected crew chief. When you're "married to the sea" you have a routine of people getting your coffee, etc., that I'm sure you don't receive at home.

Shivetya 6y ago

Easy or not, the pay numbers are obscene regardless. Let alone how many employees are in the 100k club. The danger is how much this contributes to their retirement payout. California had to change the law to prevent ridiculous retirement payouts and that is where the ire belongs. There is no logic to public employees pulling down 100k retirements but this is where we are. People bemoan private employer payouts need to be watching their backs as they are fleeced by public employee salaries, boosted by overtime and other bonuses, and then their retirements. My favorite is Forbes's work on Illinois 100k club[1] Look, the average pension for many public servants is not all that grand, it is the big money people who are fleecing not only the tax payers but other public service retirees. There is every reason a retiree should have a good retirement payout but when you start getting into multiples of what the average income of someone in your state is someone needs to step back and say, what gives. Let alone the pension debt Illinois carries - this is not uncommon across the country [0]https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/the-state-worker/article233539467.html https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/the-state-wo... [1]https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2018/10/26/illinois-100000-club-94000-six-figure-public-employees-and-retirees-cost-taxpayers-12b/?sh=3b0325ab481a https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2018/10/26/ill... [2] https://www.illinoispolicy.org/moodys-report-illinois-pension-debt-reaches-record-high-317-billion/ https://www.illinoispolicy.org/moodys-report-illinois-pensio...