4 ms·

Also, there are a lot of influenza studies that said mask wearing for asymptomatic wasn't very effective at all. There are some that said there was an apprecia

Also, there are a lot of influenza studies that said mask wearing for asymptomatic wasn't very effective at all. There are some that said there was an appreciable benefits, but overall the studies were mixed at best. Nobody thought mask wearing would give good protection during flu season. So I think the initial instinct was to assume COVID would be roughly similar to influzenia. But what wasn't then known what that COVID had a significantly larger % of pre-symptomatic spread. This changes the calculus significantly. Something like 50% of covid spread happens before symptoms. Flu is much much lower. I also think the effectiveness of masks (for currently non-symptomatic people) is an open question. It's certainly helpful, but the idea that has taken hold that "if everyone just wore their masks it would be over soon" is bullshit. It's a cheap and easy way to reduce transmission rate, but not enough to get below 1.

ghaff 6y ago
I certainly wear one inside (and have a good one now)--and to me it falls into the can't hurt/may help a bit category. At this point, wearing them distanced outside and/or pulling up a neck gaiter for a few seconds when you pass someone on a trail is pretty much theater though.
- rhino369 6y ago
  That's exactly where I am on that matter. I don't wear one walking my dogs because virtually nobody catches covid based on walking past someone on the side walk. I'm okay wearing one inside even after full vaccination until everyone has a chance to get one. It's theater at that point, but its impossible to tell a vaccinated person from vaccinated just by looking at them. So I understand making everyone do it.
  - clairity 6y ago
    > "...but its impossible to tell a vaccinated person from vaccinated just by looking at them. So I understand making everyone do it." no, that's the same kind of ignoble lie that degrades trust, and blindly accepts mass coercion to boot. we shouldn't promote such dishonesty, nor ill-defined use of force.
    - rhino369 6y ago
      I agree they shouldn't lie about the purpose. But they don't have to. Instead of "you have to wear a mask because VACCINES DONT WORK" (which is the current, deeply stupid, messaging), they could just say "everyone has to wear a mask b/c we don't know who is vaccinated and who isn't."
      - clairity 6y ago
        you seem to be missing the obvious non-totalitarian option: if you’re vaccinated, you’ve already drastically reduced your chances of spreading the virus to others, and it’s overwhelmingly unlikely that wearing a mask will lower that risk meaningfully further. that also has the positive knock-on effect of encouraging vaccination as an avenue toward herd immunity, rather than the punitive inverse, which discourages it.
spookthesunset 6y ago
> It's a cheap and easy way to reduce transmission rate Calling them "easy" or "cheap" dismisses all the negatives. It's not cheap or easy for people who have to wear them 8+ hours a day at work. There are now a set of children born into a world never having seen a strangers face. Plenty of data out there on how important seeing faces is to infant brain development. It makes many activities a pain in the ass. For example I could never dream of wearing a mask while working out at a gym... I don't care what "the experts" say it is disgusting to even consider wearing a mask over my sweaty face. Experts who say it is is fine to do so are just gaslighting the public. It also is just ugly to look at. It is a constant reminder to be afraid. It was one thing if it was a few weeks. But this has been going on for almost 9 months now in many places. Calling it "cheap" and "easy" just shrugs off and dismisses peoples feelings. It's a form of gaslighting, really. Gaslighting has been a constant thing for the entire duration of this. Anybody who expresses anything other than max-doom and max-panic is told in no uncertain terms they are crazy and need to shut up, stop thinking and blindly listen to the "experts".
- clairity 6y ago
  > "It also is just ugly to look at. It is a constant reminder to be afraid." yes, that's the point of them. distancing, despite being a better general mitigation, isn't unambiguously obvious enough, so we have masks to drive the point home.
cameldrv 6y ago
This idea that we didn't know about asymptomatic spread in Feb/Mar is revisionist history. There were many, many reports of it coming out of China, and it was being talked about a lot. Even in the U.S., we had several documented instances in March of asymptomatic superspreader events, including the Skagit Choir on March 10. It would have been one thing if public health officials had remained neutral on mask wearing, but instead they actively discouraged it, and promoted interventions like hand washing and disinfecting surfaces, which had no real scientific support and are now believed to be essentially ineffective.

ghaff 6y ago

I certainly wear one inside (and have a good one now)--and to me it falls into the can't hurt/may help a bit category. At this point, wearing them distanced outside and/or pulling up a neck gaiter for a few seconds when you pass someone on a trail is pretty much theater though.

rhino369 6y ago
That's exactly where I am on that matter. I don't wear one walking my dogs because virtually nobody catches covid based on walking past someone on the side walk. I'm okay wearing one inside even after full vaccination until everyone has a chance to get one. It's theater at that point, but its impossible to tell a vaccinated person from vaccinated just by looking at them. So I understand making everyone do it.
- clairity 6y ago
  > "...but its impossible to tell a vaccinated person from vaccinated just by looking at them. So I understand making everyone do it." no, that's the same kind of ignoble lie that degrades trust, and blindly accepts mass coercion to boot. we shouldn't promote such dishonesty, nor ill-defined use of force.
  - rhino369 6y ago
    I agree they shouldn't lie about the purpose. But they don't have to. Instead of "you have to wear a mask because VACCINES DONT WORK" (which is the current, deeply stupid, messaging), they could just say "everyone has to wear a mask b/c we don't know who is vaccinated and who isn't."
    - clairity 6y ago
      you seem to be missing the obvious non-totalitarian option: if you’re vaccinated, you’ve already drastically reduced your chances of spreading the virus to others, and it’s overwhelmingly unlikely that wearing a mask will lower that risk meaningfully further. that also has the positive knock-on effect of encouraging vaccination as an avenue toward herd immunity, rather than the punitive inverse, which discourages it.

spookthesunset 6y ago

> It's a cheap and easy way to reduce transmission rate Calling them "easy" or "cheap" dismisses all the negatives. It's not cheap or easy for people who have to wear them 8+ hours a day at work. There are now a set of children born into a world never having seen a strangers face. Plenty of data out there on how important seeing faces is to infant brain development. It makes many activities a pain in the ass. For example I could never dream of wearing a mask while working out at a gym... I don't care what "the experts" say it is disgusting to even consider wearing a mask over my sweaty face. Experts who say it is is fine to do so are just gaslighting the public. It also is just ugly to look at. It is a constant reminder to be afraid. It was one thing if it was a few weeks. But this has been going on for almost 9 months now in many places. Calling it "cheap" and "easy" just shrugs off and dismisses peoples feelings. It's a form of gaslighting, really. Gaslighting has been a constant thing for the entire duration of this. Anybody who expresses anything other than max-doom and max-panic is told in no uncertain terms they are crazy and need to shut up, stop thinking and blindly listen to the "experts".

clairity 6y ago
> "It also is just ugly to look at. It is a constant reminder to be afraid." yes, that's the point of them. distancing, despite being a better general mitigation, isn't unambiguously obvious enough, so we have masks to drive the point home.

cameldrv 6y ago

This idea that we didn't know about asymptomatic spread in Feb/Mar is revisionist history. There were many, many reports of it coming out of China, and it was being talked about a lot. Even in the U.S., we had several documented instances in March of asymptomatic superspreader events, including the Skagit Choir on March 10. It would have been one thing if public health officials had remained neutral on mask wearing, but instead they actively discouraged it, and promoted interventions like hand washing and disinfecting surfaces, which had no real scientific support and are now believed to be essentially ineffective.