4 ms·

I guess whether you call it a lie or not is a matter of framing, but I thought that the official line was always the same, even if you had to search hard for it

by qntty 6y ago

I guess whether you call it a lie or not is a matter of framing, but I thought that the official line was always the same, even if you had to search hard for it: masks don't offer much protection to the wearer but do protect others from the wearer. I seem to remember this being the justification for advice given a year ago. The difference is that a year ago they emphasized the first part and now they emphasize the second part.

umvi 6y ago
> I thought that the official line was always the same, even if you had to search hard for it: masks don't offer much protection to the wearer but do protect others from the wearer. If that's the official line, why is Dr. Fauci still double masking after receiving both vaccine doses?
- ghaff 6y ago
  If nothing else, I assume it's called setting an example given a significant majority of people haven't gotten even a first shot yet.
  - umvi 6y ago
    I disagree. I think it sends mixed messages and just confuses people further, especially in light of CDC statements that people don't have to wear masks if everyone present is vaccinated but you do have to still wear a mask in public even if you are vaccinated (why?) The ultra risk aversion is what many people are souring on, especially considering the risks are low to begin with for the vast majority. My opinion is that if you are fully vaccinated, you don't need a mask. If you are vulnerable then by all means continue social distancing and masking and bunkering down in social isolation even after receiving the vaccination if you so desire, but stop forcing it upon me.
    - astrophysician 6y ago
      You should wear masks in public when you are vaccinated because while you're protected from severe symptoms, you can still carry the virus and transmit it to others. > The ultra risk aversion is what many people are souring on, especially considering the risks are low to begin with for the vast majority. Yea but...they are not low for a significant portion of the population, which should matter? And those people are affected when people don't wear masks because many of them are not able to completely isolate. I don't really understand this line of reasoning -- wearing a mask helps people, so why not do it? Is it really that debilitating? I don't like wearing a mask either but if wearing one helps, why not wear it?
      - umvi 6y ago
        > You should wear masks in public when you are vaccinated because while you're protected from severe symptoms, you can still carry the virus and transmit it to others. You say this as if it's a fact, but as of 2 days ago, we still don't know the answer to that question. Unless you have a source I'm unaware of? > Yea but...they are not low for a significant portion of the population Heart disease is a large risk for an even more significant portion of the population, yet McDonalds is still open and people can still choose to eat there? Once the vaccine is widely available (and it already is for the at-risk groups), it's up to those who are at-risk to get themselves vaccinated. If they choose not to, well, that's their prerogative to assume extra risk and I no longer have any obligation to protect them (at least, not any more than I protect my obese friends from heart disease).
        ghaff 6y ago
        Yes, but it's likely to be several months in the US before everyone who wants to get vaccinated will be able to get fully vaccinated. I've been eligible for a couple weeks and I still haven't been able to get an appointment and under 55s aren't eligible for another few weeks. And even after people get a jab, with the two shot vaccines, it's about another month before they'll be fully vaccinated.
        astrophysician 6y ago
        > You say this as if it's a fact, but as of 2 days ago, we still don't know the answer to that question. Unless you have a source I'm unaware of? https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vac... <- that's the advice from public health authorities. I myself am not a public health expert, and so I don't pretend to know more than public health authorities, though maybe that is not the case for you? > Heart disease is a large risk for an even more significant portion of the population, yet McDonalds is still open and people can still choose to eat there? Right, because you going to mcdonald's can't give someone else heart disease. > Once the vaccine is widely available (and it already is for the at-risk groups), it's up to those who are at-risk to get themselves vaccinated. If they choose not to, well, that's their prerogative to assume extra risk and I no longer have any obligation to protect them (at least, not any more than I protect my obese friends from heart disease). It is already widely available to people with high risk, yet it is still almost impossible to find appointments in some states (including my own). It may very well open up to the majority of the population before everyone at high risk is able to get vaccinated. Also, people with compromised immune systems cannot get vaccinated. If someone chooses not to get the vaccine when they otherwise should and have no health conditions that preclude them getting it, sure I agree they are taking on that risk themselves, but there are plenty of people that should get the vaccine that aren't able to for whatever reason. Also....protecting your obese friends from heart disease is absolutely not the same thing and is not a good analogy.
  - xxxxxyy1 6y ago
    > I assume it's called setting an example So...theater. It's an authoritarian tactic meant to promote complete conformity and obedience to policy.

by qntty 6y ago

umvi 6y ago

> I thought that the official line was always the same, even if you had to search hard for it: masks don't offer much protection to the wearer but do protect others from the wearer. If that's the official line, why is Dr. Fauci still double masking after receiving both vaccine doses?

ghaff 6y ago
If nothing else, I assume it's called setting an example given a significant majority of people haven't gotten even a first shot yet.
- umvi 6y ago
  I disagree. I think it sends mixed messages and just confuses people further, especially in light of CDC statements that people don't have to wear masks if everyone present is vaccinated but you do have to still wear a mask in public even if you are vaccinated (why?) The ultra risk aversion is what many people are souring on, especially considering the risks are low to begin with for the vast majority. My opinion is that if you are fully vaccinated, you don't need a mask. If you are vulnerable then by all means continue social distancing and masking and bunkering down in social isolation even after receiving the vaccination if you so desire, but stop forcing it upon me.
  - astrophysician 6y ago
    You should wear masks in public when you are vaccinated because while you're protected from severe symptoms, you can still carry the virus and transmit it to others. > The ultra risk aversion is what many people are souring on, especially considering the risks are low to begin with for the vast majority. Yea but...they are not low for a significant portion of the population, which should matter? And those people are affected when people don't wear masks because many of them are not able to completely isolate. I don't really understand this line of reasoning -- wearing a mask helps people, so why not do it? Is it really that debilitating? I don't like wearing a mask either but if wearing one helps, why not wear it?
    - umvi 6y ago
      > You should wear masks in public when you are vaccinated because while you're protected from severe symptoms, you can still carry the virus and transmit it to others. You say this as if it's a fact, but as of 2 days ago, we still don't know the answer to that question. Unless you have a source I'm unaware of? > Yea but...they are not low for a significant portion of the population Heart disease is a large risk for an even more significant portion of the population, yet McDonalds is still open and people can still choose to eat there? Once the vaccine is widely available (and it already is for the at-risk groups), it's up to those who are at-risk to get themselves vaccinated. If they choose not to, well, that's their prerogative to assume extra risk and I no longer have any obligation to protect them (at least, not any more than I protect my obese friends from heart disease).
      - ghaff 6y ago
        Yes, but it's likely to be several months in the US before everyone who wants to get vaccinated will be able to get fully vaccinated. I've been eligible for a couple weeks and I still haven't been able to get an appointment and under 55s aren't eligible for another few weeks. And even after people get a jab, with the two shot vaccines, it's about another month before they'll be fully vaccinated.
      - astrophysician 6y ago
        > You say this as if it's a fact, but as of 2 days ago, we still don't know the answer to that question. Unless you have a source I'm unaware of? https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vac... <- that's the advice from public health authorities. I myself am not a public health expert, and so I don't pretend to know more than public health authorities, though maybe that is not the case for you? > Heart disease is a large risk for an even more significant portion of the population, yet McDonalds is still open and people can still choose to eat there? Right, because you going to mcdonald's can't give someone else heart disease. > Once the vaccine is widely available (and it already is for the at-risk groups), it's up to those who are at-risk to get themselves vaccinated. If they choose not to, well, that's their prerogative to assume extra risk and I no longer have any obligation to protect them (at least, not any more than I protect my obese friends from heart disease). It is already widely available to people with high risk, yet it is still almost impossible to find appointments in some states (including my own). It may very well open up to the majority of the population before everyone at high risk is able to get vaccinated. Also, people with compromised immune systems cannot get vaccinated. If someone chooses not to get the vaccine when they otherwise should and have no health conditions that preclude them getting it, sure I agree they are taking on that risk themselves, but there are plenty of people that should get the vaccine that aren't able to for whatever reason. Also....protecting your obese friends from heart disease is absolutely not the same thing and is not a good analogy.
- xxxxxyy1 6y ago
  > I assume it's called setting an example So...theater. It's an authoritarian tactic meant to promote complete conformity and obedience to policy.