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My own experience being raised mainline Protestant was a bit different which might be illustrative: My parents were not at all devout, but still took wisdom an

My own experience being raised mainline Protestant was a bit different which might be illustrative: My parents were not at all devout, but still took wisdom and moral lessons from the Bible, especially from the teachings of Jesus. At the same time the preachers in town leaned right in their beliefs and focused on reading and interpreting more obscure passages. This resulted in a modest ongoing tension about what exactly it all meant. Then one Sunday School a conservative leaning preacher taught the kids how to spot witches. That was the last straw and we never went back to Mass or Sunday School and gradually withdrew from everything else with Easter and Christmas being the final holdouts. So I drifted to atheism but still find wisdom in the Bible and dare to compare the passages that focus on Jesus to stories of the Buddha. Culturally there is still quite a bit of influence there, but the fundamentalist component is a massive division like a great wall.

thechao 6y ago
As a non-practicing Jew, I found the Jefferson bible very inspiring. Stripping the religious trappings from the teachings tempers the whole thing; I really like the humanity: it’s a story about a man with his own foibles, attempting to teach himself & others to be better people.
- Balgair 6y ago
  For those that are confused as to what a 'Jefferson Bible' is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, commonly referred to as the Jefferson Bible, is one of two religious works constructed by Thomas Jefferson. The first, The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1804, but no copies exist today. The second, The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1820 by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition excludes all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels that contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages that portray Jesus as divine." https://uuhouston.org/files/The_Jefferson_Bible.pdf https://uuhouston.org/files/The_Jefferson_Bible.pdf Free here
  - JKCalhoun 6y ago
    Yes, a surprisingly short read. Reading it I couldn't help but see Jesus as something of a troll. Like in this passage: JESUS went unto the mount of Olives. And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. And the scribes and Pharisees brought in a woman caught committing adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was caught committing adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, to test him, that they might have cause to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him be the first to cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, began going out one by one, beginning at the eldest: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, he said unto her, Woman, whither are they gone? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
    - roody15 6y ago
      Why is he a troll here? Seems like a solid message.
      - AuthorizedCust 6y ago
        The stories have Jesus trolling the Pharisees and others. Imagining the reactions and situation behind some of these stories are strong LOL moments.
      - saghm 6y ago
        When he was asked about what to do with the woman who was brought in, he immediately started ignoring everyone and started doodling in the dirt, and then continued doing so as everyone slowly left. That's a little trollish (although not necessarily in a bad way!)
      - JKCalhoun 6y ago
- Noos 6y ago
  Except that without the supernatural part, it was a wandering, homeless religious teacher who got himself killed at an early age teaching things which got his followers killed too, and end up being pointless. "Blessed are the meek; for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven." Except there is no kingdom of heaven, after all; and the meek are not blessed but oppressed. The supernatural stuff was there to show that the oppressive nature of the world and its cruelty was not the only thing; there was hope beyond it in the world to come, which gave the strength to believe in something absurd. Otherwise its just John the Baptist; a person preaching who ended up dead on the whims of the powerful.
AuthorizedCust 6y ago
Witches? Seriously? That's just looney crap. I take it that "last straw" means the "straw that broke the camel's back". I just hope that stories like that won't be conflated with healthy practice of Christianity in people's minds.
- krastanov 6y ago
  I get your point, but isn't this the "no true Scotsman" fallacy? I know Christians like you exist and I like that most media portrays "good" Christians to look basically like the prototype you described. However, I have personally met only one Christian of this type and all my other interactions have been with the fundamenlist caricatures described elsewhere here. (Who is vocal about their Christianity might be skewing my observations, but this is a problem in its own: why are only the fundamentalists vocal around me)
  - nicbou 6y ago
    You've probably met a lot more, but only noticed the more intense ones.
  - AuthorizedCust 6y ago
    > isn't this the "no true Scotsman" fallacy You have a point. The definition of Christian is flexible, so how do you define "true"-ness? In my denomination, you'll find a wide variance of views on whether Mormons are Christian, for example. > all my other interactions have been with the fundamenlist caricatures described elsewhere here Like what you later intimated and what someone else said, I'll bet significant money that it's because they are so vocal. They are called capital-E evangelicals for a reason. The United Methodist church is lowercase-E evangelical; very much not in your face.
coliveira 6y ago
This demonstrates the big flaw of Christianity. Even thought there are millions of sincere, loving and friendly Christians around the world, the whole thing is based around a book that espouses views that are exactly what you call fundamentalism. Sooner or later someone will be confronted with the fundamentalist ideas about women, non-christians, and sexual diversity (for example), and start spreading the hate ideas contained in parts of that book.
- mrfusion 6y ago
  Are there clear examples of that in the Bible (New Testament) or is it just how people interpret it? Edit. I’m not challenging or arguing any point. I was genuinely curious.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - jazzyb 6y ago
    Women shouldn't speak in church: https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/14-34.htm https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/14-34.htm Homosexuality is unnatural: https://www.biblestudytools.com/romans/1-27.html https://www.biblestudytools.com/romans/1-27.html
    - m0llusk 6y ago
      There are real issues there, but the homosexuality quote is one of the "big eight" anti gay quotes that come up often and turn out to be misunderstood or translation errors that don't hold up to serious scrutiny. Homosexuality as we know it today was not well known or named at the time that text was written, just to start. Searching for the "big eight" helps both with that specifically and the general business of understanding how ancient stories get misunderstood by our modern news clip processing habits.
  - kaesar14 6y ago
    Eph 22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Cor 33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people. 34 Women[a] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. Tim 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[a] she must be quiet. I think those constitute clear sexism and/or misogyny?
whatanattitude 6y ago
Mass is very much not main line Protestant. Spotting a witch would be no different than spotting any other sinner who exists. We are everywhere. At the end of the day we are all sinners and will all stand accountable for our sins on the day of judgement. We can either be found in Christ forgiven or on our own. You can say you don’t believe it and it’s all a fairy tale. That’s fine but most Christians are only warning others of the eternity that waits based on the special revelation of Christ in the Bible.
DaedPsyker 6y ago
This isn't an excuse, more curiosity, but did that take place during the mass hysteria about supposed satanic cults?

thechao 6y ago

As a non-practicing Jew, I found the Jefferson bible very inspiring. Stripping the religious trappings from the teachings tempers the whole thing; I really like the humanity: it’s a story about a man with his own foibles, attempting to teach himself & others to be better people.

Balgair 6y ago
For those that are confused as to what a 'Jefferson Bible' is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, commonly referred to as the Jefferson Bible, is one of two religious works constructed by Thomas Jefferson. The first, The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1804, but no copies exist today. The second, The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, was completed in 1820 by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition excludes all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels that contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages that portray Jesus as divine." https://uuhouston.org/files/The_Jefferson_Bible.pdf https://uuhouston.org/files/The_Jefferson_Bible.pdf Free here
- JKCalhoun 6y ago
  Yes, a surprisingly short read. Reading it I couldn't help but see Jesus as something of a troll. Like in this passage: JESUS went unto the mount of Olives. And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. And the scribes and Pharisees brought in a woman caught committing adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was caught committing adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, to test him, that they might have cause to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him be the first to cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, began going out one by one, beginning at the eldest: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, he said unto her, Woman, whither are they gone? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
  - roody15 6y ago
    Why is he a troll here? Seems like a solid message.
    - AuthorizedCust 6y ago
      The stories have Jesus trolling the Pharisees and others. Imagining the reactions and situation behind some of these stories are strong LOL moments.
    - saghm 6y ago
      When he was asked about what to do with the woman who was brought in, he immediately started ignoring everyone and started doodling in the dirt, and then continued doing so as everyone slowly left. That's a little trollish (although not necessarily in a bad way!)
    - JKCalhoun 6y ago
Noos 6y ago
Except that without the supernatural part, it was a wandering, homeless religious teacher who got himself killed at an early age teaching things which got his followers killed too, and end up being pointless. "Blessed are the meek; for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven." Except there is no kingdom of heaven, after all; and the meek are not blessed but oppressed. The supernatural stuff was there to show that the oppressive nature of the world and its cruelty was not the only thing; there was hope beyond it in the world to come, which gave the strength to believe in something absurd. Otherwise its just John the Baptist; a person preaching who ended up dead on the whims of the powerful.

AuthorizedCust 6y ago

Witches? Seriously? That's just looney crap. I take it that "last straw" means the "straw that broke the camel's back". I just hope that stories like that won't be conflated with healthy practice of Christianity in people's minds.

krastanov 6y ago
I get your point, but isn't this the "no true Scotsman" fallacy? I know Christians like you exist and I like that most media portrays "good" Christians to look basically like the prototype you described. However, I have personally met only one Christian of this type and all my other interactions have been with the fundamenlist caricatures described elsewhere here. (Who is vocal about their Christianity might be skewing my observations, but this is a problem in its own: why are only the fundamentalists vocal around me)
- nicbou 6y ago
  You've probably met a lot more, but only noticed the more intense ones.
- AuthorizedCust 6y ago
  > isn't this the "no true Scotsman" fallacy You have a point. The definition of Christian is flexible, so how do you define "true"-ness? In my denomination, you'll find a wide variance of views on whether Mormons are Christian, for example. > all my other interactions have been with the fundamenlist caricatures described elsewhere here Like what you later intimated and what someone else said, I'll bet significant money that it's because they are so vocal. They are called capital-E evangelicals for a reason. The United Methodist church is lowercase-E evangelical; very much not in your face.

coliveira 6y ago

This demonstrates the big flaw of Christianity. Even thought there are millions of sincere, loving and friendly Christians around the world, the whole thing is based around a book that espouses views that are exactly what you call fundamentalism. Sooner or later someone will be confronted with the fundamentalist ideas about women, non-christians, and sexual diversity (for example), and start spreading the hate ideas contained in parts of that book.

mrfusion 6y ago
Are there clear examples of that in the Bible (New Testament) or is it just how people interpret it? Edit. I’m not challenging or arguing any point. I was genuinely curious.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- jazzyb 6y ago
  Women shouldn't speak in church: https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/14-34.htm https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/14-34.htm Homosexuality is unnatural: https://www.biblestudytools.com/romans/1-27.html https://www.biblestudytools.com/romans/1-27.html
  - m0llusk 6y ago
    There are real issues there, but the homosexuality quote is one of the "big eight" anti gay quotes that come up often and turn out to be misunderstood or translation errors that don't hold up to serious scrutiny. Homosexuality as we know it today was not well known or named at the time that text was written, just to start. Searching for the "big eight" helps both with that specifically and the general business of understanding how ancient stories get misunderstood by our modern news clip processing habits.
- kaesar14 6y ago
  Eph 22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Cor 33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people. 34 Women[a] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. Tim 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[a] she must be quiet. I think those constitute clear sexism and/or misogyny?

whatanattitude 6y ago

Mass is very much not main line Protestant. Spotting a witch would be no different than spotting any other sinner who exists. We are everywhere. At the end of the day we are all sinners and will all stand accountable for our sins on the day of judgement. We can either be found in Christ forgiven or on our own. You can say you don’t believe it and it’s all a fairy tale. That’s fine but most Christians are only warning others of the eternity that waits based on the special revelation of Christ in the Bible.

DaedPsyker 6y ago

This isn't an excuse, more curiosity, but did that take place during the mass hysteria about supposed satanic cults?