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Not just other commenters, the (sociological) science backs you up as well: political backlash is a big reason for recent disaffiliation. https://sociologicalsc

Not just other commenters, the (sociological) science backs you up as well: political backlash is a big reason for recent disaffiliation. https://sociologicalscience.com/articles-vol1-24-423/ https://sociologicalscience.com/articles-vol1-24-423/

burlesona 6y ago
That’s the predictable, and in the end, best outcome. The most foolish thing cultural “christianity,” could do is pick a political party. Now that we’re a generation past that, the so-called “religious right” has evolved into a thin veneer of pseudo-religion over a very specific political faction, and that shallow falseness is driving most people away. As for actual Christianity and those who study it, in many ways the teachings of Christ could not be more different than the “religious right” advocates today. Christ taught followers to love their neighbors as themselves, and not to judge other people, because in God’s eyes all humans were equally and impossibly flawed. When a mob formed to stone an “adulteress,” as was the prescribed punishment for that “crime” in ancient Judaea, Jesus said “let the person who is without sin throw the first stone.” The mob dissolved, and he told the woman she was forgiven. Note that this is not what the religious-political faction of Jesus day wanted either, and in the end they arranged for him to be crucified as a result.
- Karunamon 6y ago
  Jesus also told the woman to "go forth and sin no more" as part of being forgiven, which is a significantly important detail that often gets overlooked when paraphrasing this story. The entire story of Christ is based on redemption from sin - if one tries to eliminate that because having extrajudicial demands on one's conduct is not fashionable in the modern day, what's left is, objectively speaking, not Christianity anymore, not even qualifying as a moral framework, and leaves you with nothing more than a nice story about a nice guy. Let us not forget that Jesus was described as fashioning a whip (which is not something you do on a momentary whim in the bronze age, that takes time and effort, and in this case, likely stewing the whole time) and deploying it against scalpers in the temple. What the "judge not" passage calls for is recognizing that you aren't the ultimate authority worthy of meting out punishment at the end of the day (which also jibes with significant portions of the Israeli covenant and its lethal punishments being deprecated), but it does not demand that people remain tolerant or silent in the face of sin.
  - burlesona 6y ago
    I agree with everything you said. I’ll also admit, it’s hard for me to see much difference between today’s “religious right” and the temple market that Jesus personally wrecked.
    - Karunamon 6y ago
      Agreed.. but I think that intent factors into it a lot more than people tend to give credit for. If one of the key takeaways of Christianity is "don't sin", then right behind it is "you (and everyone else) will screw up, try to be better anyways". And that applies just as well to things like lying and cheating as it does to scrupulosity and being judgmental. Your typical fundamentalist might be nominally Christian by declaration, but they give short shrift to so many things they deem not important that it amounts to shallow virtue signaling. The moral guidelines are all-or-nothing. You either accept it all or you might as well save yourself the time because there's no such thing as partial credit. Sin is sin.
- coliveira 6y ago
  I emigrated from another country to the US and, having participated in religion in the past (even if just for socialization), became frightened to discover that American churches (at least 90% of them) are nothing more than a cover to conservative political activism. I never entered into a single one after that.
  - burlesona 6y ago
    I doubt that the number is 90%, and I have no idea how anyone would rigorously measure it, but I understand your point. One of the annoying things is that it isn’t even quite true to say they preach “conservative,” political action. There’s a particular political philosophy of the “religious right,” which is really it’s own flavor of thing and doesn’t fit the classical definitions of liberal vs conservative that we would have used in say, 1980. That’s a lot of what’s turning over the Republican Party right now. Old-fashioned “conservatives” like Mitt Romney and Liz Cheney are being uprooted in favor of... whatever you call the hodgepodge of today’s Republican ideas.
    - ryandrake 6y ago
      I'm not religious, so I don't go to my wife's church, but with the pandemic now, they are streaming their services on Sundays for the few of their congregation who are respecting stay-at-home. Now that it's background noise Sunday mornings, I can hear what they're saying, and it's essentially a Republican sermon. Sure, the pastor mentions Jesus every once in a while, but for the most part it's straight up conservative talking points and propaganda. If I didn't know it was a church service, I would have thought she was streaming Fox News. I know, anecdote and sample size of one, but wow. They're all anti-maskers, too. She had to stop by once to deliver something during service, and everyone's packed in there singing and shouting, zero masks to be found. Pretty scary.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

burlesona 6y ago

That’s the predictable, and in the end, best outcome. The most foolish thing cultural “christianity,” could do is pick a political party. Now that we’re a generation past that, the so-called “religious right” has evolved into a thin veneer of pseudo-religion over a very specific political faction, and that shallow falseness is driving most people away. As for actual Christianity and those who study it, in many ways the teachings of Christ could not be more different than the “religious right” advocates today. Christ taught followers to love their neighbors as themselves, and not to judge other people, because in God’s eyes all humans were equally and impossibly flawed. When a mob formed to stone an “adulteress,” as was the prescribed punishment for that “crime” in ancient Judaea, Jesus said “let the person who is without sin throw the first stone.” The mob dissolved, and he told the woman she was forgiven. Note that this is not what the religious-political faction of Jesus day wanted either, and in the end they arranged for him to be crucified as a result.

Karunamon 6y ago
Jesus also told the woman to "go forth and sin no more" as part of being forgiven, which is a significantly important detail that often gets overlooked when paraphrasing this story. The entire story of Christ is based on redemption from sin - if one tries to eliminate that because having extrajudicial demands on one's conduct is not fashionable in the modern day, what's left is, objectively speaking, not Christianity anymore, not even qualifying as a moral framework, and leaves you with nothing more than a nice story about a nice guy. Let us not forget that Jesus was described as fashioning a whip (which is not something you do on a momentary whim in the bronze age, that takes time and effort, and in this case, likely stewing the whole time) and deploying it against scalpers in the temple. What the "judge not" passage calls for is recognizing that you aren't the ultimate authority worthy of meting out punishment at the end of the day (which also jibes with significant portions of the Israeli covenant and its lethal punishments being deprecated), but it does not demand that people remain tolerant or silent in the face of sin.
- burlesona 6y ago
  I agree with everything you said. I’ll also admit, it’s hard for me to see much difference between today’s “religious right” and the temple market that Jesus personally wrecked.
  - Karunamon 6y ago
    Agreed.. but I think that intent factors into it a lot more than people tend to give credit for. If one of the key takeaways of Christianity is "don't sin", then right behind it is "you (and everyone else) will screw up, try to be better anyways". And that applies just as well to things like lying and cheating as it does to scrupulosity and being judgmental. Your typical fundamentalist might be nominally Christian by declaration, but they give short shrift to so many things they deem not important that it amounts to shallow virtue signaling. The moral guidelines are all-or-nothing. You either accept it all or you might as well save yourself the time because there's no such thing as partial credit. Sin is sin.
coliveira 6y ago
I emigrated from another country to the US and, having participated in religion in the past (even if just for socialization), became frightened to discover that American churches (at least 90% of them) are nothing more than a cover to conservative political activism. I never entered into a single one after that.
- burlesona 6y ago
  I doubt that the number is 90%, and I have no idea how anyone would rigorously measure it, but I understand your point. One of the annoying things is that it isn’t even quite true to say they preach “conservative,” political action. There’s a particular political philosophy of the “religious right,” which is really it’s own flavor of thing and doesn’t fit the classical definitions of liberal vs conservative that we would have used in say, 1980. That’s a lot of what’s turning over the Republican Party right now. Old-fashioned “conservatives” like Mitt Romney and Liz Cheney are being uprooted in favor of... whatever you call the hodgepodge of today’s Republican ideas.
  - ryandrake 6y ago
    I'm not religious, so I don't go to my wife's church, but with the pandemic now, they are streaming their services on Sundays for the few of their congregation who are respecting stay-at-home. Now that it's background noise Sunday mornings, I can hear what they're saying, and it's essentially a Republican sermon. Sure, the pastor mentions Jesus every once in a while, but for the most part it's straight up conservative talking points and propaganda. If I didn't know it was a church service, I would have thought she was streaming Fox News. I know, anecdote and sample size of one, but wow. They're all anti-maskers, too. She had to stop by once to deliver something during service, and everyone's packed in there singing and shouting, zero masks to be found. Pretty scary.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]