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At least the abortion thing makes sense: Catholics believe that the soul enters the body at the moment of conception, so abortion is effectively murder. It woul

At least the abortion thing makes sense: Catholics believe that the soul enters the body at the moment of conception, so abortion is effectively murder. It would be odd for the church to not openly oppose it.

gwbas1c 6y ago
Well, when I went to a steakhouse in India, I didn't need to cross a picket line. Nor did I see billboards condemning me for eating beef. > It would be odd for the church to not openly oppose it There's a difference between politics and religion. Getting back to my point, my opinion is that treating abortion as a political issue is one of the many reasons why people leave.
- RHSeeger 6y ago
  > Well, when I went to a steakhouse in India, I didn't need to cross a picket line. The comment was specifically about how it didn't seem unreasonable for the church to publicly oppose abortion, in response to a billboard on the church's property. > the church had a massive anti-abortion billboard over their parking lot It wasn't about the members of the church protesting at a hospital or other facility that performs abortions. Admittedly, that does happen in some places, but it's not what was being discussed.
  - gwbas1c 6y ago
    The Catholic opposition to abortion is very similar to the Hindu opposition to consuming beef. Talk to some people from India about political/religious issues there. Eating beef, meat, and/or eggs is as offensive to some people in India, for religions reasons, as abortion is in the US. Yet India doesn't have the same mass exodus from its churches as the US does.
- bitcurious 6y ago
  > In northern India, cow slaughter is illegal in all the states, with Jammu & Kashmir and Jharkhand leading the list in the terms of severity of punishment. A person found guilty of cow slaughter can be sent to 10 years imprisonment in these two states. > Kerala is the only state in the south where there are no restrictions on the slaughter and consumption of cow meat https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/beef-madhya-pradesh-video-cow-vigilantes-gau-rakshaks-2938751/ https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/bee...
  - selimthegrim 6y ago
    That law in Kashmir is from RPC and was abolished when state was abolished (and isn't enforced in Muslim majority areas). Furthermore you can read DN Jha on how Brahmins ate plenty of beef in Vedic times until Buddhists showed up.
MisterBastahrd 6y ago
They also believe that state sanctioned executions are murder, yet somehow the vast majority of Catholic adherents tend to be less willing to make political or advocacy decisions based on that.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  I'm not here to defend hypocrites, just to point out that there is nothing inherently unreasonable about a Catholic church putting up an anti-abortion billboard.
Analemma_ 6y ago
> Catholics believe that the soul enters the body at the moment of conception, They don't, though, or at least they didn't always. No less a Church authority than Saint Thomas Aquinas said ensoulment didn't happen before quickening. The total prohibition on abortion is a relatively recent theological innovation, and this insistence that it has always been thus is one of the things above mentioned that leaves a bad taste in people's mouths can they can plainly see it isn't true.
- gwbas1c 6y ago
  Spend a little time researching how the Catholic church used to oppose infanticide. The anti-abortion stance makes a lot more sense when put into historical context.
- svieira 6y ago
  St. Thomas also held that contraception was wrong, not merely abortion, so the fact that ensoulment didn't happen before quickening (in his learned opinion) didn't change his understanding of how moral contraception and abortion are (he believed they were both gravely sinful). St. Thomas said ensoulment happened at quickening because the science of the time said that the zygote was a simple thing. Given that understanding, St. Thomas held that the rational soul was not necessary to explain the developments that happened and in fact, that the soul which animated such simple matter must be simpler. Modern science tells us that the zygote is anything but simple and so St. Thomas' objection on the basis of a "simple" material component are incorrect. St. Thomas also said that all that he had ever written was "so much straw" after receiving a mystical experience of God's love (not _wrong_, just completely inadequate).

gwbas1c 6y ago

Well, when I went to a steakhouse in India, I didn't need to cross a picket line. Nor did I see billboards condemning me for eating beef. > It would be odd for the church to not openly oppose it There's a difference between politics and religion. Getting back to my point, my opinion is that treating abortion as a political issue is one of the many reasons why people leave.

RHSeeger 6y ago
> Well, when I went to a steakhouse in India, I didn't need to cross a picket line. The comment was specifically about how it didn't seem unreasonable for the church to publicly oppose abortion, in response to a billboard on the church's property. > the church had a massive anti-abortion billboard over their parking lot It wasn't about the members of the church protesting at a hospital or other facility that performs abortions. Admittedly, that does happen in some places, but it's not what was being discussed.
- gwbas1c 6y ago
  The Catholic opposition to abortion is very similar to the Hindu opposition to consuming beef. Talk to some people from India about political/religious issues there. Eating beef, meat, and/or eggs is as offensive to some people in India, for religions reasons, as abortion is in the US. Yet India doesn't have the same mass exodus from its churches as the US does.
bitcurious 6y ago
> In northern India, cow slaughter is illegal in all the states, with Jammu & Kashmir and Jharkhand leading the list in the terms of severity of punishment. A person found guilty of cow slaughter can be sent to 10 years imprisonment in these two states. > Kerala is the only state in the south where there are no restrictions on the slaughter and consumption of cow meat https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/beef-madhya-pradesh-video-cow-vigilantes-gau-rakshaks-2938751/ https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/bee...
- selimthegrim 6y ago
  That law in Kashmir is from RPC and was abolished when state was abolished (and isn't enforced in Muslim majority areas). Furthermore you can read DN Jha on how Brahmins ate plenty of beef in Vedic times until Buddhists showed up.

MisterBastahrd 6y ago

They also believe that state sanctioned executions are murder, yet somehow the vast majority of Catholic adherents tend to be less willing to make political or advocacy decisions based on that.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
I'm not here to defend hypocrites, just to point out that there is nothing inherently unreasonable about a Catholic church putting up an anti-abortion billboard.

Analemma_ 6y ago

> Catholics believe that the soul enters the body at the moment of conception, They don't, though, or at least they didn't always. No less a Church authority than Saint Thomas Aquinas said ensoulment didn't happen before quickening. The total prohibition on abortion is a relatively recent theological innovation, and this insistence that it has always been thus is one of the things above mentioned that leaves a bad taste in people's mouths can they can plainly see it isn't true.

gwbas1c 6y ago
Spend a little time researching how the Catholic church used to oppose infanticide. The anti-abortion stance makes a lot more sense when put into historical context.
svieira 6y ago
St. Thomas also held that contraception was wrong, not merely abortion, so the fact that ensoulment didn't happen before quickening (in his learned opinion) didn't change his understanding of how moral contraception and abortion are (he believed they were both gravely sinful). St. Thomas said ensoulment happened at quickening because the science of the time said that the zygote was a simple thing. Given that understanding, St. Thomas held that the rational soul was not necessary to explain the developments that happened and in fact, that the soul which animated such simple matter must be simpler. Modern science tells us that the zygote is anything but simple and so St. Thomas' objection on the basis of a "simple" material component are incorrect. St. Thomas also said that all that he had ever written was "so much straw" after receiving a mystical experience of God's love (not _wrong_, just completely inadequate).