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>The thing that underscores all of my experiences has been hypocrisy. This is, consistently, what I hear from friends and family as to why they have drifted aw

>The thing that underscores all of my experiences has been hypocrisy. This is, consistently, what I hear from friends and family as to why they have drifted away from the Catholic church, and is solidly my own reason as well. You see people, day-in-day out being terrible, judgmental, hateful people, except on Sunday when they're in the front row being holier than thou. It grates on you, and leaves a bad taste. It's even worse, because those people tend to be the ones who gravitate toward leadership positions within your local church. My theory is that people have always felt that way, but it was harder to nail down these awful people before social media. Now that everyone puts everything on social media, it's easy to see, in plain black and white print, that the deacon really is an asshole. The one thing that I do genuinely lament from the death of large religious congregations (at least in my part of the states), is that there are no replacement social constructs for people to gather and feel a sense of community. I'm certain this has something to do with the splintering of American discourse; not the religion inherently, but the social aspect is lacking and legitimately missed by most folks.

RHSeeger 6y ago
> You see people, day-in-day out being terrible, judgmental, hateful people, except on Sunday when they're in the front row being holier than thou. But you see this nearly everywhere, with every type of organization/group. A prime example would be politicians and political groups who constantly talk about how they want to help people, but then throw those same people under the bus to get what they want. This is not something unique to any one type of organization. From my experience, there are lots of good people in most religious organizations. I would venture to say, at least in the northeast US (which is where most of my experience is), it's the majority of the people. However, as with any organization, it's common for the bad apples to be the ones that rise in power, because they don't care who they hurt to get do so. This, too, is true everywhere.
- nonameiguess 6y ago
  Those other institutions are also losing credibility. Fewer people than ever claim membership in unions, political parties, and public office holders and legislatures as groups are continually setting new records for low approval ratings.
  - RHSeeger 6y ago
    > Fewer people than ever claim membership in unions, political parties, That is exactly the opposite of my experience.
    - tablespoon 6y ago
      >> Fewer people than ever claim membership in unions, political parties, > That is exactly the opposite of my experience. How so? Union membership has undergone a well-documented decline. While politics/political ideology does seem a lot more prominent, the role of the political parties has seemed to wither. Political activity seems much more ephemeral and individual.
gwbas1c 6y ago
> This is, consistently, what I hear from friends and family as to why they have drifted away from the Catholic church, and is solidly my own reason as well. I was raised Catholic and decided, as a teenager, that I didn't want to be Catholic as an adult. > My theory is that people have always felt that way, but it was harder to nail down these awful people before social media. IMO, two things: 1: The changes in the 1960s to the English (native language) mass 2: The shift towards conservative politics Have you been to a latin mass? (The old-style mass that the Church conducted until the 1960s.) It's a very different experience than modern Catholicism, and much more similar to eastern-style worship. But, more importantly, the latin mass has a lot less preaching. It's a meditation, and then a social gathering afterwards. It's a lot more universal in the sense that you don't really have to explicitly align with the beliefs to still be comfortable with the community. (Edit: As in, if you don't believe in the whole Jesus thing, you can just enjoy the chanting at let your mind drift away.) But, the thing that really turned me off of the Catholic church was the drift towards conservative politics. I attended a friend's wedding where the church had a massive anti-abortion billboard over their parking lot for the whole town to see. Another time I went to a mass in honor of some deceased family members and there were posters in the church advocating that members vote against marijuana legalization.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  At least the abortion thing makes sense: Catholics believe that the soul enters the body at the moment of conception, so abortion is effectively murder. It would be odd for the church to not openly oppose it.
  - gwbas1c 6y ago
    Well, when I went to a steakhouse in India, I didn't need to cross a picket line. Nor did I see billboards condemning me for eating beef. > It would be odd for the church to not openly oppose it There's a difference between politics and religion. Getting back to my point, my opinion is that treating abortion as a political issue is one of the many reasons why people leave.
    - 6y ago

RHSeeger 6y ago

> You see people, day-in-day out being terrible, judgmental, hateful people, except on Sunday when they're in the front row being holier than thou. But you see this nearly everywhere, with every type of organization/group. A prime example would be politicians and political groups who constantly talk about how they want to help people, but then throw those same people under the bus to get what they want. This is not something unique to any one type of organization. From my experience, there are lots of good people in most religious organizations. I would venture to say, at least in the northeast US (which is where most of my experience is), it's the majority of the people. However, as with any organization, it's common for the bad apples to be the ones that rise in power, because they don't care who they hurt to get do so. This, too, is true everywhere.

nonameiguess 6y ago
Those other institutions are also losing credibility. Fewer people than ever claim membership in unions, political parties, and public office holders and legislatures as groups are continually setting new records for low approval ratings.
- RHSeeger 6y ago
  > Fewer people than ever claim membership in unions, political parties, That is exactly the opposite of my experience.
  - tablespoon 6y ago
    >> Fewer people than ever claim membership in unions, political parties, > That is exactly the opposite of my experience. How so? Union membership has undergone a well-documented decline. While politics/political ideology does seem a lot more prominent, the role of the political parties has seemed to wither. Political activity seems much more ephemeral and individual.

gwbas1c 6y ago

> This is, consistently, what I hear from friends and family as to why they have drifted away from the Catholic church, and is solidly my own reason as well. I was raised Catholic and decided, as a teenager, that I didn't want to be Catholic as an adult. > My theory is that people have always felt that way, but it was harder to nail down these awful people before social media. IMO, two things: 1: The changes in the 1960s to the English (native language) mass 2: The shift towards conservative politics Have you been to a latin mass? (The old-style mass that the Church conducted until the 1960s.) It's a very different experience than modern Catholicism, and much more similar to eastern-style worship. But, more importantly, the latin mass has a lot less preaching. It's a meditation, and then a social gathering afterwards. It's a lot more universal in the sense that you don't really have to explicitly align with the beliefs to still be comfortable with the community. (Edit: As in, if you don't believe in the whole Jesus thing, you can just enjoy the chanting at let your mind drift away.) But, the thing that really turned me off of the Catholic church was the drift towards conservative politics. I attended a friend's wedding where the church had a massive anti-abortion billboard over their parking lot for the whole town to see. Another time I went to a mass in honor of some deceased family members and there were posters in the church advocating that members vote against marijuana legalization.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
At least the abortion thing makes sense: Catholics believe that the soul enters the body at the moment of conception, so abortion is effectively murder. It would be odd for the church to not openly oppose it.
- gwbas1c 6y ago
  Well, when I went to a steakhouse in India, I didn't need to cross a picket line. Nor did I see billboards condemning me for eating beef. > It would be odd for the church to not openly oppose it There's a difference between politics and religion. Getting back to my point, my opinion is that treating abortion as a political issue is one of the many reasons why people leave.
  - 6y ago