4 ms·

Have amnesty traveled internationally? Corrupt police overseas are routine- ie, almost every interaction involves cash pmt on spot usually w no receipt for vari

Have amnesty traveled internationally? Corrupt police overseas are routine- ie, almost every interaction involves cash pmt on spot usually w no receipt for various fines and fees. I’ve been stopped plenty of times by cops in US and have never had to pay a spot fine in cash

leephillips 6y ago
Survivorship bias: you have not yet been murdered by a US policeman.
- random5634 6y ago
  I think you are confusing corruption (which amnesty supposedly claims US police are leaders in) and violence. I've actually traveled internationally and worked in tough areas. US police / customs etc are not corrupt (relative to developing countries I've traveled in). This really makes me lose confidence in Amnesty unfortunately. The US is relatively violent compared to developed peers and has some insane pockets of violence (east st louis etc). No question about that. This is stark when traveling to Asia or Western Europe - even "bad" areas in places like Germany are ridiculously safe relative to "bad" areas in the US. And that includes interactions with police (often unarmed overseas vs jumping on your back with a gun in the US).
  - leephillips 6y ago
    I don’t think I’m confusing those two things, but may be using “corruption” in a slightly different way than you are. You may be less likely to be solicited for a bribe when pulled over for speeding in the US; but police literally getting away with murder is the very definition of corruption in my view, even if the courts give it a pass with dubious arguments about immunity.
    - random5634 6y ago
      That's kind of crazy of Amnesty to take this sloppy approach to their definitions. While systems are not perfect by any means, the US is in a totally different category with respect to corruption, rule of law, judicial independence, even conviction rates than other countries. We have a trial by jury here - does Amnesty not even look at what is going on in other countries with judiciaries that are actually totally corrupt? I would be interested in some of the examples of tourists and visitors being killed by police - I pay somewhat close attention to that. There are issues of violence that really shock visitors to the US, including killings, but I hadn't realized the police were playing such a big role. Could you give some examples of visitors being killed by police (ie, the issue Amnesty is warning people over?).

leephillips 6y ago

Survivorship bias: you have not yet been murdered by a US policeman.

random5634 6y ago
I think you are confusing corruption (which amnesty supposedly claims US police are leaders in) and violence. I've actually traveled internationally and worked in tough areas. US police / customs etc are not corrupt (relative to developing countries I've traveled in). This really makes me lose confidence in Amnesty unfortunately. The US is relatively violent compared to developed peers and has some insane pockets of violence (east st louis etc). No question about that. This is stark when traveling to Asia or Western Europe - even "bad" areas in places like Germany are ridiculously safe relative to "bad" areas in the US. And that includes interactions with police (often unarmed overseas vs jumping on your back with a gun in the US).
- leephillips 6y ago
  I don’t think I’m confusing those two things, but may be using “corruption” in a slightly different way than you are. You may be less likely to be solicited for a bribe when pulled over for speeding in the US; but police literally getting away with murder is the very definition of corruption in my view, even if the courts give it a pass with dubious arguments about immunity.
  - random5634 6y ago
    That's kind of crazy of Amnesty to take this sloppy approach to their definitions. While systems are not perfect by any means, the US is in a totally different category with respect to corruption, rule of law, judicial independence, even conviction rates than other countries. We have a trial by jury here - does Amnesty not even look at what is going on in other countries with judiciaries that are actually totally corrupt? I would be interested in some of the examples of tourists and visitors being killed by police - I pay somewhat close attention to that. There are issues of violence that really shock visitors to the US, including killings, but I hadn't realized the police were playing such a big role. Could you give some examples of visitors being killed by police (ie, the issue Amnesty is warning people over?).