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As per several news pieces[1], and human rights and internal organizations[2][3], Honduras looks like one of the last countries I would consider to move. Politi

As per several news pieces[1], and human rights and internal organizations[2][3], Honduras looks like one of the last countries I would consider to move. Political unstability, rampant violence, and poverty. I would not like to live there. [1] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/1/26/the-spiralling-crisis-pushing-hondurans-to-flee-north https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/1/26/the-spiralling-cris... [2] https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/honduras https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/hondu... [3] https://freedomhouse.org/country/honduras/freedom-world/2020 https://freedomhouse.org/country/honduras/freedom-world/2020

leephillips 6y ago
You may also want to avoid the United States. Several national governments and organizations such as Amnesty International have issued warnings against travelling there due to several factors, including corrupt and violent police, level of violence in general, dangerous prison system, etc. Also, border control routinely denies entry for obscure reasons.
- random5634 6y ago
  Have amnesty traveled internationally? Corrupt police overseas are routine- ie, almost every interaction involves cash pmt on spot usually w no receipt for various fines and fees. I’ve been stopped plenty of times by cops in US and have never had to pay a spot fine in cash
  - leephillips 6y ago
    Survivorship bias: you have not yet been murdered by a US policeman.
    - random5634 6y ago
      I think you are confusing corruption (which amnesty supposedly claims US police are leaders in) and violence. I've actually traveled internationally and worked in tough areas. US police / customs etc are not corrupt (relative to developing countries I've traveled in). This really makes me lose confidence in Amnesty unfortunately. The US is relatively violent compared to developed peers and has some insane pockets of violence (east st louis etc). No question about that. This is stark when traveling to Asia or Western Europe - even "bad" areas in places like Germany are ridiculously safe relative to "bad" areas in the US. And that includes interactions with police (often unarmed overseas vs jumping on your back with a gun in the US).
      - leephillips 6y ago
        I don’t think I’m confusing those two things, but may be using “corruption” in a slightly different way than you are. You may be less likely to be solicited for a bribe when pulled over for speeding in the US; but police literally getting away with murder is the very definition of corruption in my view, even if the courts give it a pass with dubious arguments about immunity.
        random5634 6y ago
        That's kind of crazy of Amnesty to take this sloppy approach to their definitions. While systems are not perfect by any means, the US is in a totally different category with respect to corruption, rule of law, judicial independence, even conviction rates than other countries. We have a trial by jury here - does Amnesty not even look at what is going on in other countries with judiciaries that are actually totally corrupt? I would be interested in some of the examples of tourists and visitors being killed by police - I pay somewhat close attention to that. There are issues of violence that really shock visitors to the US, including killings, but I hadn't realized the police were playing such a big role. Could you give some examples of visitors being killed by police (ie, the issue Amnesty is warning people over?).
- david38 6y ago
  Having lived in both, with family in the government of both, they aren’t even close. A few paper reports doesn’t even begin to describe the real risks in Honduras. By comparison, US is a regional heaven. There is a reason people are paying everything they own and more to get smuggled into the US.
- happy_path 6y ago
  While I don't live in the US. It is not difficult to imagine that living in Honduras is worse than living in the US (in general).
- IG_Semmelweiss 6y ago
  Its not the same. In the US , you are not exposed at all to petty corruption, and the judicial system is mostly fair and works at a decent pace for all. However you are more likely to end up dead and or without recourse when the police turn hostile for whatever reason. The police is a guild that suceeds in protecting its members. Elsewhere, down south, everyone is exposed to petty corruption, and generally, justice is far from fair and slow. However, you can pretty much get things done quickly ...with cash. On the positive side, police don't go crazy on the avg person. They do seem to have some kind of respect to life. This is not because people are nicer, but because incentives are aligned : arresting or abusing the wrong person very quickly lands you in hot water, fired, with no income (lack of jobs) or even worse. Police mostly can't tell if a person is the son/daughter of some person with connections, and that is a positive externality. The police is a profit-driven bureaucracy to protects its riches. Cross a "contract", or fail to abide by the rules, you are cut loose. Police as a profit-driven bureaucracy can turn very nasty however when certain illegal industries use their money to leverage their power (drugs, etc). That's when you end up in situation's like Mexico's.
whymauri 6y ago
Most of the violent crime in Honduras is concentrated in the major cities, like the capital. A good chunk of the countryside is your run-of-the-mill rural Latin America (still rough to navigate, but not overtly violent). This tech city will be built on island, apparently.

leephillips 6y ago

You may also want to avoid the United States. Several national governments and organizations such as Amnesty International have issued warnings against travelling there due to several factors, including corrupt and violent police, level of violence in general, dangerous prison system, etc. Also, border control routinely denies entry for obscure reasons.

random5634 6y ago
Have amnesty traveled internationally? Corrupt police overseas are routine- ie, almost every interaction involves cash pmt on spot usually w no receipt for various fines and fees. I’ve been stopped plenty of times by cops in US and have never had to pay a spot fine in cash
- leephillips 6y ago
  Survivorship bias: you have not yet been murdered by a US policeman.
  - random5634 6y ago
    I think you are confusing corruption (which amnesty supposedly claims US police are leaders in) and violence. I've actually traveled internationally and worked in tough areas. US police / customs etc are not corrupt (relative to developing countries I've traveled in). This really makes me lose confidence in Amnesty unfortunately. The US is relatively violent compared to developed peers and has some insane pockets of violence (east st louis etc). No question about that. This is stark when traveling to Asia or Western Europe - even "bad" areas in places like Germany are ridiculously safe relative to "bad" areas in the US. And that includes interactions with police (often unarmed overseas vs jumping on your back with a gun in the US).
    - leephillips 6y ago
      I don’t think I’m confusing those two things, but may be using “corruption” in a slightly different way than you are. You may be less likely to be solicited for a bribe when pulled over for speeding in the US; but police literally getting away with murder is the very definition of corruption in my view, even if the courts give it a pass with dubious arguments about immunity.
      - random5634 6y ago
        That's kind of crazy of Amnesty to take this sloppy approach to their definitions. While systems are not perfect by any means, the US is in a totally different category with respect to corruption, rule of law, judicial independence, even conviction rates than other countries. We have a trial by jury here - does Amnesty not even look at what is going on in other countries with judiciaries that are actually totally corrupt? I would be interested in some of the examples of tourists and visitors being killed by police - I pay somewhat close attention to that. There are issues of violence that really shock visitors to the US, including killings, but I hadn't realized the police were playing such a big role. Could you give some examples of visitors being killed by police (ie, the issue Amnesty is warning people over?).
david38 6y ago
Having lived in both, with family in the government of both, they aren’t even close. A few paper reports doesn’t even begin to describe the real risks in Honduras. By comparison, US is a regional heaven. There is a reason people are paying everything they own and more to get smuggled into the US.
happy_path 6y ago
While I don't live in the US. It is not difficult to imagine that living in Honduras is worse than living in the US (in general).
IG_Semmelweiss 6y ago
Its not the same. In the US , you are not exposed at all to petty corruption, and the judicial system is mostly fair and works at a decent pace for all. However you are more likely to end up dead and or without recourse when the police turn hostile for whatever reason. The police is a guild that suceeds in protecting its members. Elsewhere, down south, everyone is exposed to petty corruption, and generally, justice is far from fair and slow. However, you can pretty much get things done quickly ...with cash. On the positive side, police don't go crazy on the avg person. They do seem to have some kind of respect to life. This is not because people are nicer, but because incentives are aligned : arresting or abusing the wrong person very quickly lands you in hot water, fired, with no income (lack of jobs) or even worse. Police mostly can't tell if a person is the son/daughter of some person with connections, and that is a positive externality. The police is a profit-driven bureaucracy to protects its riches. Cross a "contract", or fail to abide by the rules, you are cut loose. Police as a profit-driven bureaucracy can turn very nasty however when certain illegal industries use their money to leverage their power (drugs, etc). That's when you end up in situation's like Mexico's.

whymauri 6y ago

Most of the violent crime in Honduras is concentrated in the major cities, like the capital. A good chunk of the countryside is your run-of-the-mill rural Latin America (still rough to navigate, but not overtly violent). This tech city will be built on island, apparently.