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I fail to understand why they didn't/don't use the tugboats to wash the water away. Even small boats can cause a lot of scour with their bow thrusters along a v

by tda 6y ago

I fail to understand why they didn't/don't use the tugboats to wash the water away. Even small boats can cause a lot of scour with their bow thrusters along a vertical quay wall (which the Ever Given is in a way). The erosive power of a 16MW engine is really something to not be underestimated.

avianlyric 6y ago
I imagine it’s a mix of 1. They can’t manoeuvre tugs into the right location due to the aforementioned silt and dirt the Ever Given is stuck on/dug up. 2. Tug bow trusters are difficult to aim. Plus how do you hold them steady? They can only fire in one direction at a time, so you have no ability to create a reaction thrust to prevent the tug from moving. 3. Tug thrusters don’t enjoy ingesting huge amounts silt and earth when they’re operating. Which invariably will happen if they’re close enough to banks to have a useful erosive effect.
whalesalad 6y ago
There’s been like 2 dudes out there with an excavator for a week. Absolutely nothing about this has made any sense. Based on the amount of revenue lost due to this blockage you’d think every military on the earth would have descended there.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  That's just that first image. Meanwhile they've been going at it day and night with 6 long boom excavators at the same time.
  - djxfade 6y ago
    At this point, I wonder if it economically would cost less to just destroy the vessel
    - tallanvor 6y ago
      And spread debris throughout the canal, causing more delays as they try to clean that up?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - helloguillecl 6y ago
      I fail to understand why so many people are proposing this alternative as if blowing up tonnes of cargo in the water, surroundings and air would be fine from an environmental point of view.
      - Symbiote 6y ago
        The Hollywood effect. All crises, worldwide, are eventually solved by the American military blowing shit up.
        helloguillecl 6y ago
        Also: No laws governing other countries.
      - SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
        Or even just filling the canal with debris.
    - avianlyric 6y ago
      Kurzgesagt tweeted about this (specifically using a nuke to remove the vessel). It's surprising just how big a nuke you would need to remove such a large vessel. https://twitter.com/Kurz_Gesagt/status/1375607865721958403?s=20 https://twitter.com/Kurz_Gesagt/status/1375607865721958403?s...
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - rectang 6y ago
      Because that worked so well for Florence, Oregon's exploding whale... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6CLumsir34 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6CLumsir34
- spyder 6y ago
  It's not just 2 dude: https://youtu.be/xLh1676KRaE?t=20 https://youtu.be/xLh1676KRaE?t=20 another interesting view: https://images0.persgroep.net/rcs/GXjmBPgKzxDcYYksztfQHjNhNls/diocontent/201413338/_fitwidth/1240?appId=93a17a8fd81db0de025c8abd1cca1279&quality=0.9 https://images0.persgroep.net/rcs/GXjmBPgKzxDcYYksztfQHjNhNl...
jasode 6y ago
>I fail to understand why they didn't/don't use the tugboats to wash the water away. Even small boats can cause a lot of scour with their bow thrusters If the following video explanation is accurate, a tugboat's turbulence can't scour down to ~50 ft depth of sand: https://youtu.be/zBvFuq7Mkzs?t=1m00s https://youtu.be/zBvFuq7Mkzs?t=1m00s I think the confusion we have with all these news reports is that we really don't have a definitive visualization or geometry of how its actually stuck in the sand that's accurate/authoritative. A bunch of overhead drone shots don't really reveal to us the true extent of the problem that's hidden underneath the waterline. We just see words about tugboats arriving and water spraying so our instinct is to simplify the problem to "I don't understand why they can't just do <X>?!?" EDIT to add informative deep link of how the ship got stuck mentioned by another thread: https://youtu.be/5iyn2q6s1Sk?t=4m28s https://youtu.be/5iyn2q6s1Sk?t=4m28s
- ryanjshaw 6y ago
  Here is an attempt to draw a cross-section of the situation: https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/2021/03/26/suez-canal-satellite-clues-on-a-stricken-cargo-ship/ https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/2021/03/26/suez-canal-s...
  - wussboy 6y ago
    Great link. That was the diagram I had been wanting to see.
- a4isms 6y ago
  Tearing down Chesterton’s Fence: "Don’t demand that people stop doing a thing until you fully understand why they think it was worth doing. Only when you fully understand their perspective should you then argue with their specific reasoning." Closing Chesterton’s Gate: “Don’t ask rhetorically why people don’t simply do a thing, until you fully understand why they considered but rejected that thing. Only when you fully understand their perspective should you then argue with their specific reasoning."
  - mncharity 6y ago
itomato 6y ago
They could use jets to build Palm Islands, but not to dislodge this ship?
- Piskvorrr 6y ago
  ...in a few days?

by tda 6y ago

avianlyric 6y ago

I imagine it’s a mix of 1. They can’t manoeuvre tugs into the right location due to the aforementioned silt and dirt the Ever Given is stuck on/dug up. 2. Tug bow trusters are difficult to aim. Plus how do you hold them steady? They can only fire in one direction at a time, so you have no ability to create a reaction thrust to prevent the tug from moving. 3. Tug thrusters don’t enjoy ingesting huge amounts silt and earth when they’re operating. Which invariably will happen if they’re close enough to banks to have a useful erosive effect.

whalesalad 6y ago

There’s been like 2 dudes out there with an excavator for a week. Absolutely nothing about this has made any sense. Based on the amount of revenue lost due to this blockage you’d think every military on the earth would have descended there.

jacquesm 6y ago
That's just that first image. Meanwhile they've been going at it day and night with 6 long boom excavators at the same time.
- djxfade 6y ago
  At this point, I wonder if it economically would cost less to just destroy the vessel
  - tallanvor 6y ago
    And spread debris throughout the canal, causing more delays as they try to clean that up?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - helloguillecl 6y ago
    I fail to understand why so many people are proposing this alternative as if blowing up tonnes of cargo in the water, surroundings and air would be fine from an environmental point of view.
    - Symbiote 6y ago
      The Hollywood effect. All crises, worldwide, are eventually solved by the American military blowing shit up.
      - helloguillecl 6y ago
        Also: No laws governing other countries.
    - SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
      Or even just filling the canal with debris.
  - avianlyric 6y ago
    Kurzgesagt tweeted about this (specifically using a nuke to remove the vessel). It's surprising just how big a nuke you would need to remove such a large vessel. https://twitter.com/Kurz_Gesagt/status/1375607865721958403?s=20 https://twitter.com/Kurz_Gesagt/status/1375607865721958403?s...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - rectang 6y ago
    Because that worked so well for Florence, Oregon's exploding whale... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6CLumsir34 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6CLumsir34
spyder 6y ago
It's not just 2 dude: https://youtu.be/xLh1676KRaE?t=20 https://youtu.be/xLh1676KRaE?t=20 another interesting view: https://images0.persgroep.net/rcs/GXjmBPgKzxDcYYksztfQHjNhNls/diocontent/201413338/_fitwidth/1240?appId=93a17a8fd81db0de025c8abd1cca1279&quality=0.9 https://images0.persgroep.net/rcs/GXjmBPgKzxDcYYksztfQHjNhNl...

jasode 6y ago

>I fail to understand why they didn't/don't use the tugboats to wash the water away. Even small boats can cause a lot of scour with their bow thrusters If the following video explanation is accurate, a tugboat's turbulence can't scour down to ~50 ft depth of sand: https://youtu.be/zBvFuq7Mkzs?t=1m00s https://youtu.be/zBvFuq7Mkzs?t=1m00s I think the confusion we have with all these news reports is that we really don't have a definitive visualization or geometry of how its actually stuck in the sand that's accurate/authoritative. A bunch of overhead drone shots don't really reveal to us the true extent of the problem that's hidden underneath the waterline. We just see words about tugboats arriving and water spraying so our instinct is to simplify the problem to "I don't understand why they can't just do <X>?!?" EDIT to add informative deep link of how the ship got stuck mentioned by another thread: https://youtu.be/5iyn2q6s1Sk?t=4m28s https://youtu.be/5iyn2q6s1Sk?t=4m28s

ryanjshaw 6y ago
Here is an attempt to draw a cross-section of the situation: https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/2021/03/26/suez-canal-satellite-clues-on-a-stricken-cargo-ship/ https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/2021/03/26/suez-canal-s...
- wussboy 6y ago
  Great link. That was the diagram I had been wanting to see.
a4isms 6y ago
Tearing down Chesterton’s Fence: "Don’t demand that people stop doing a thing until you fully understand why they think it was worth doing. Only when you fully understand their perspective should you then argue with their specific reasoning." Closing Chesterton’s Gate: “Don’t ask rhetorically why people don’t simply do a thing, until you fully understand why they considered but rejected that thing. Only when you fully understand their perspective should you then argue with their specific reasoning."
- mncharity 6y ago

itomato 6y ago

They could use jets to build Palm Islands, but not to dislodge this ship?

Piskvorrr 6y ago
...in a few days?