8 ms·

Kinect for Windows SDK (Silverlight Required)

108 points by th0ma5 15y ago

iamelgringo 15y ago
Word on the street says that drivers for Kinect are going to ship with Windows 8. I don't think that the new Metro UI shipping in Windows 8 is just about touch, I also suspect that the new interface is going to be gesture sensitive as well. Windows 8 is looking very shiny.
- reustle 15y ago
  I have heard this is the case from a few reputable internal sources. Windows 8 <3s Kinect
LiteOn 15y ago
of course it is what about a zune or hddvd?
kenjackson 15y ago
Didn't expect to see Anoop Gupta there. Very cool that he was invovled.
AndrewDucker 15y ago
It's a shame that the license is non-commercial only. I wonder if they've got a commercial version available if you know the right people.
- TomOfTTB 15y ago
  I'm not sure that's the issue. For Microsoft to release a commercial license they have to be able to support it. That means relatively no bugs, staffing tech support, etc... I don't think Microsoft is ready to do that with Kinect. In fact, I think this SDK is a response to the homebrew solutions that were coming out. I think Microsoft saw the focus shifting off them and onto the open source community and they didn't want to lose the good PR. Meaning this SDK was probably rushed out the door (and I'd suspect has some serious bugs in it)
  - contextfree 15y ago
    There's a commercial version still under development. I think I read it would be available late this year.
  - random42 15y ago
    While I concur to the premise, I must disagree with the drawn conclusion. At the risk of speculating, I'd say MS need some more time before the release the commercial license, for the reasons mentioned by you (robustness of the code, staffing tech support etc.) and also to possibly see the reception of the software by the developer community, before deciding on commercial terms (It IS labelled beta afterall). Edit - From http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/projects/kinectsdk/about.aspx http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/projects/kine... > "This SDK is designed for non-commercial purposes only; a commercial version is expected to be available at a later date."
- andypants 15y ago
  The sdk is still in beta, a commercial license will come eventually.
TomOfTTB 15y ago
Kinect for Windows is, IMHO, Microsoft's only chance of really getting back in the game. It is an Apple level sea change if they can capitalize on it. I mean lets be real here. Touch is a great way to interact with computing devices but it screws up the screen. Until someone invents a smudge proof surface that will always be the case. Beyond that usability studies show touch screens on PCs just don't work. People's shoulders start to hurt very quickly. Kinect solves that. It's touch without touching. It can be done without having to reach over the keyboard. It IS the future if Microsoft can capitalize on it.
- spot 15y ago
  i don't think it solves the "starts to hurt" problem. it's not the touch that causes that, it's holding your arm up.
  - TomOfTTB 15y ago
    Right but if you don't have to reach you don't have to use your shoulder to hold up your arm. Just your elbow to move your hand up above the keyboard so the Kinect Sensor can see it.
    - leon_ 15y ago
      So what's the reason for a kinect sensor then? I'd rather hit a key on my keyboard (which gives me instant physical feedback) than hovering my hand in the air and trying to grab a file or something.
  - recoiledsnake 15y ago
    It depends on how much you use it for. For typing, it's not so good. As a browser back button, it's comparable to mouse gestures in effort.
- napierzaza 15y ago
  I think that moving a finger to do an action is going to trump needing to move your whole arm or do jumping jacks for the same action. Especially since it would be fairly embarrassing for probably a whole generation of people before it became common place. But it might justify some of the more active users getting offices. What you're suggesting I imagine is points at an item but doesn't touch it. Maybe they coordinate themselves with a virtual reflection on the screen or something so they needn't physically touch it? The background technology is indeed complex, but that doesn't really matter much. The biggest stopper is the fact that you are still putting and abstraction between yourself and the object you're manipulating. Touching something and directly manipulating (touch screens) is a very close coupling with little abstraction. But having to point, but coordinate your "reflection", or point but don't touch is a stretch.
iqster 15y ago
From the demos shown on Channel 9, it seems the SDK comes with skeletal tracking. This would be big!! Edit: I just looked at the Skeletal viewer sample. Looks like they do have skeleton tracking in the SDK. Woot! Edit 2: They also have sound localization from the Kinect's microphones!! I'm not sure about others, but I I did not expect either features to be in the initial SDK. This might explain why it took them so long (they said it would be released in Spring). They seem to have gone all-out!
- DrJ 15y ago
  OpenNI comes with skeleton tracking as well!
dstein 15y ago
I'd love to try this, but the all-Microsoft stack required to use this SDK is a huge barrier to entry. I use a Mac, I don't know C#, Silverlight, Visual studio etc. In order to use this SDK I need to buy into MS tech on many levels. A browser plugin with a JavaScript API (even if IE only), would be very compelling and a lot more accessible.
- iamelgringo 15y ago
  Sign up as a startup for BizSpark, and their entire stack is free: https://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/Startup/Signup.aspx https://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/Startup/Signup.aspx You can run it in a VM.
  - IanDrake 15y ago
    >Applications that are built with this SDK Beta must run in a native Windows environment. You cannot run applications in a virtual machine, because the Microsoft Kinect drivers and this SDK Beta must be installed on the computer that is running the application. That's out...
- bretthopper 15y ago
  Yeah that would be like Apple requiring Mac hardware, OS X, Xcode, and Objective-C to do iOS development...
  - dstein 15y ago
    I have the same criticism there too. I prefer multi-platform IDE's.
    - recoiledsnake 15y ago
      At least a PC can be got for $300 to $500, unlike a Mac starting at $699.
      - billybob 15y ago
praeclarum 15y ago
This is a nice SDK. It's biggest improvement over the Open Source ones is the inclusion of the skeletal tracking. This high level interface opens a lot of great opportunities in human behavior tracking. I'm just going to miss libfreenect and using my Mac to do this development.
- nbkolchin 15y ago
  NITE allowed skeleton tracking for ages.
melvinram 15y ago
The missing pieces of Minority Report are coming together.
- artmageddon 15y ago
  If you couple this technology with Playstation 9, then yes :)
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
Shenglong 15y ago
I remember my friend coded a program that Alt+Tab each time he moves his face to the right, and Alt+Shift+Tab when he moved his face to the left. It was awesome. :)
nutjob123 15y ago
I really like that website design. Very different from what i'm used to from microsoft
- recoiledsnake 15y ago
  That's the Metro UI(the UI in Zune, WP7 and Win 8) at work. More details here if you want to go in-depth. http://www.riagenic.com/archives/487 http://www.riagenic.com/archives/487 http://www.riagenic.com/archives/493 http://www.riagenic.com/archives/493
  - rkwz 15y ago
    Wow! That was really interesting. They're fit to be in a hn post of their own
qdot76367 15y ago
Fun facts from the Kinect SDK FAQ, at http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/projects/kinectsdk/faq.aspx http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/projects/kine... - You can't copy the runtimes with your application. Everyone has to download the SDK - All non SDK software (OpenKinect, OpenNI + OK, etc...) is now warrenty voiding - Assume all software you see may be violating the SDK license "Built to be open". Yup.
- kenjackson 15y ago
  A couple of points: 1) For virtually every MS SDK I can think of, everyone has to download it. I can't think of any where this isn't the case, although I wouldn't be surprised if there was a couple. That's standard MS practice. 2) I think those things always voided the warranty. In general, I think hacks, whether on Android, iPhone, Wii, Roombas, Dysons, or whatever will void the warranty.
  - ladyada 15y ago
    2) the open kinect libraries do not in any way modify the kinect hardware, firmware or otherwise. there is no 'jailbreaking' involved here. its a -usb driver-!
    - kenjackson 15y ago
      Given that the device potentially draws power based in part on the driver, I think its reasonable. It's unlikely to cause any problem, but warranties are about expected use -- not to cover any use including those of hackers. They're NOT prohibiting hackers from using it, but if you brick it, then its yours to unbrick. That seems very fair.
- recoiledsnake 15y ago
  Am I the only one that noticed a big BETA sign on the site? I remember the iPhone SDK beta license even prohibited developers from discussing the SDK or exchanging ideas with others, thereby leaving no room for forums, newsgroups, open source projects, tutorials, magazine articles, users' groups, or books(same with iOS beta now,btw) and is restricted to people signing up for it.
cjoh 15y ago
This is unreal-- from the FAQ: Q:I know that other drivers and development software for Kinect are available on the Web. Can I use the Kinect sensor device with these other drivers or software instead of the SDK Beta? A: No. Use of the Kinect sensor device is subject to its own warranty and software license agreement that allow you to use it solely in connection with an Xbox 360 or Xbox 360 S console. Only Microsoft can grant you the additional rights that you need to use the Kinect sensor device with a personal computer. Microsoft grants these additional rights in the SDK Beta license, but only for uses of the Kinect sensor device in connection with the SDK Beta. If you use the Kinect sensor with a platform other than Xbox 360, Xbox 360 S, or Windows (with the SDK Beta), you void the warranty you received when you purchased the Kinect sensor device.
- sliverstorm 15y ago
  Can't you just be happy for a minute that they even released a public SDK?
  - AdamTReineke 15y ago
    The terms on the beta are pretty restrictive. It's better than nothing, but basically it's non-profit, educational stuff only. A little discouraging to start working with, especially when I couldn't find any concrete info about future commercial SDK.
    - sliverstorm 15y ago
      It's a beta for something they never even meant to make a pre-alpha of. They probably just don't want to be held responsible when a commercial user makes a fit over lack of support for bugs he found in beta software
- tgrisfal 15y ago
  I got mine second-hand. Somehow, the warranty and all other license materials weren't included. I can has open source now?
kenjackson 15y ago
I still think the Kinect technology is most interesting for the living room or public places (where you don't want ppl interacting with a physical object, if at all possible). Not sure I think my office is where it has as much use.
Newky 15y ago
Can't watch the launch demo because I don't have silverlight! Not what I hoped for as the SDK, but as others have said I think its their most innovative product and what may in the end crack open an area for them to innovate in.
peregrine 15y ago
I don't understand why Microsoft couldn't have just endorsed OpenNI, fixed the drivers, created some Visual Studio/.net integration and been done with it. Would have spent half as much time in development, cost them less and given them the same exact product. And anyone, even without a Windows Machine or Visual Studio could have worked on this. I definitely answered my own question.

108 points by th0ma5 15y ago

Word on the street says that drivers for Kinect are going to ship with Windows 8. I don't think that the new Metro UI shipping in Windows 8 is just about touch, I also suspect that the new interface is going to be gesture sensitive as well. Windows 8 is looking very shiny.

reustle 15y ago
I have heard this is the case from a few reputable internal sources. Windows 8 <3s Kinect

LiteOn 15y ago

of course it is what about a zune or hddvd?

kenjackson 15y ago

Didn't expect to see Anoop Gupta there. Very cool that he was invovled.

AndrewDucker 15y ago

It's a shame that the license is non-commercial only. I wonder if they've got a commercial version available if you know the right people.

TomOfTTB 15y ago
I'm not sure that's the issue. For Microsoft to release a commercial license they have to be able to support it. That means relatively no bugs, staffing tech support, etc... I don't think Microsoft is ready to do that with Kinect. In fact, I think this SDK is a response to the homebrew solutions that were coming out. I think Microsoft saw the focus shifting off them and onto the open source community and they didn't want to lose the good PR. Meaning this SDK was probably rushed out the door (and I'd suspect has some serious bugs in it)
- contextfree 15y ago
  There's a commercial version still under development. I think I read it would be available late this year.
- random42 15y ago
  While I concur to the premise, I must disagree with the drawn conclusion. At the risk of speculating, I'd say MS need some more time before the release the commercial license, for the reasons mentioned by you (robustness of the code, staffing tech support etc.) and also to possibly see the reception of the software by the developer community, before deciding on commercial terms (It IS labelled beta afterall). Edit - From http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/projects/kinectsdk/about.aspx http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/projects/kine... > "This SDK is designed for non-commercial purposes only; a commercial version is expected to be available at a later date."
andypants 15y ago
The sdk is still in beta, a commercial license will come eventually.

TomOfTTB 15y ago

Kinect for Windows is, IMHO, Microsoft's only chance of really getting back in the game. It is an Apple level sea change if they can capitalize on it. I mean lets be real here. Touch is a great way to interact with computing devices but it screws up the screen. Until someone invents a smudge proof surface that will always be the case. Beyond that usability studies show touch screens on PCs just don't work. People's shoulders start to hurt very quickly. Kinect solves that. It's touch without touching. It can be done without having to reach over the keyboard. It IS the future if Microsoft can capitalize on it.

spot 15y ago
i don't think it solves the "starts to hurt" problem. it's not the touch that causes that, it's holding your arm up.
- TomOfTTB 15y ago
  Right but if you don't have to reach you don't have to use your shoulder to hold up your arm. Just your elbow to move your hand up above the keyboard so the Kinect Sensor can see it.
  - leon_ 15y ago
    So what's the reason for a kinect sensor then? I'd rather hit a key on my keyboard (which gives me instant physical feedback) than hovering my hand in the air and trying to grab a file or something.
- recoiledsnake 15y ago
  It depends on how much you use it for. For typing, it's not so good. As a browser back button, it's comparable to mouse gestures in effort.
napierzaza 15y ago
I think that moving a finger to do an action is going to trump needing to move your whole arm or do jumping jacks for the same action. Especially since it would be fairly embarrassing for probably a whole generation of people before it became common place. But it might justify some of the more active users getting offices. What you're suggesting I imagine is points at an item but doesn't touch it. Maybe they coordinate themselves with a virtual reflection on the screen or something so they needn't physically touch it? The background technology is indeed complex, but that doesn't really matter much. The biggest stopper is the fact that you are still putting and abstraction between yourself and the object you're manipulating. Touching something and directly manipulating (touch screens) is a very close coupling with little abstraction. But having to point, but coordinate your "reflection", or point but don't touch is a stretch.

iqster 15y ago

From the demos shown on Channel 9, it seems the SDK comes with skeletal tracking. This would be big!! Edit: I just looked at the Skeletal viewer sample. Looks like they do have skeleton tracking in the SDK. Woot! Edit 2: They also have sound localization from the Kinect's microphones!! I'm not sure about others, but I I did not expect either features to be in the initial SDK. This might explain why it took them so long (they said it would be released in Spring). They seem to have gone all-out!

DrJ 15y ago
OpenNI comes with skeleton tracking as well!

dstein 15y ago

I'd love to try this, but the all-Microsoft stack required to use this SDK is a huge barrier to entry. I use a Mac, I don't know C#, Silverlight, Visual studio etc. In order to use this SDK I need to buy into MS tech on many levels. A browser plugin with a JavaScript API (even if IE only), would be very compelling and a lot more accessible.

iamelgringo 15y ago
Sign up as a startup for BizSpark, and their entire stack is free: https://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/Startup/Signup.aspx https://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/Startup/Signup.aspx You can run it in a VM.
- IanDrake 15y ago
  >Applications that are built with this SDK Beta must run in a native Windows environment. You cannot run applications in a virtual machine, because the Microsoft Kinect drivers and this SDK Beta must be installed on the computer that is running the application. That's out...
bretthopper 15y ago
Yeah that would be like Apple requiring Mac hardware, OS X, Xcode, and Objective-C to do iOS development...
- dstein 15y ago
  I have the same criticism there too. I prefer multi-platform IDE's.
  - recoiledsnake 15y ago
    At least a PC can be got for $300 to $500, unlike a Mac starting at $699.
    - billybob 15y ago

praeclarum 15y ago

This is a nice SDK. It's biggest improvement over the Open Source ones is the inclusion of the skeletal tracking. This high level interface opens a lot of great opportunities in human behavior tracking. I'm just going to miss libfreenect and using my Mac to do this development.

nbkolchin 15y ago
NITE allowed skeleton tracking for ages.

melvinram 15y ago

The missing pieces of Minority Report are coming together.

artmageddon 15y ago
If you couple this technology with Playstation 9, then yes :)
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

Shenglong 15y ago

I remember my friend coded a program that Alt+Tab each time he moves his face to the right, and Alt+Shift+Tab when he moved his face to the left. It was awesome. :)

nutjob123 15y ago

I really like that website design. Very different from what i'm used to from microsoft

recoiledsnake 15y ago
That's the Metro UI(the UI in Zune, WP7 and Win 8) at work. More details here if you want to go in-depth. http://www.riagenic.com/archives/487 http://www.riagenic.com/archives/487 http://www.riagenic.com/archives/493 http://www.riagenic.com/archives/493
- rkwz 15y ago
  Wow! That was really interesting. They're fit to be in a hn post of their own

qdot76367 15y ago

Fun facts from the Kinect SDK FAQ, at http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/projects/kinectsdk/faq.aspx http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/projects/kine... - You can't copy the runtimes with your application. Everyone has to download the SDK - All non SDK software (OpenKinect, OpenNI + OK, etc...) is now warrenty voiding - Assume all software you see may be violating the SDK license "Built to be open". Yup.

kenjackson 15y ago
A couple of points: 1) For virtually every MS SDK I can think of, everyone has to download it. I can't think of any where this isn't the case, although I wouldn't be surprised if there was a couple. That's standard MS practice. 2) I think those things always voided the warranty. In general, I think hacks, whether on Android, iPhone, Wii, Roombas, Dysons, or whatever will void the warranty.
- ladyada 15y ago
  2) the open kinect libraries do not in any way modify the kinect hardware, firmware or otherwise. there is no 'jailbreaking' involved here. its a -usb driver-!
  - kenjackson 15y ago
    Given that the device potentially draws power based in part on the driver, I think its reasonable. It's unlikely to cause any problem, but warranties are about expected use -- not to cover any use including those of hackers. They're NOT prohibiting hackers from using it, but if you brick it, then its yours to unbrick. That seems very fair.
recoiledsnake 15y ago
Am I the only one that noticed a big BETA sign on the site? I remember the iPhone SDK beta license even prohibited developers from discussing the SDK or exchanging ideas with others, thereby leaving no room for forums, newsgroups, open source projects, tutorials, magazine articles, users' groups, or books(same with iOS beta now,btw) and is restricted to people signing up for it.

cjoh 15y ago

This is unreal-- from the FAQ: Q:I know that other drivers and development software for Kinect are available on the Web. Can I use the Kinect sensor device with these other drivers or software instead of the SDK Beta? A: No. Use of the Kinect sensor device is subject to its own warranty and software license agreement that allow you to use it solely in connection with an Xbox 360 or Xbox 360 S console. Only Microsoft can grant you the additional rights that you need to use the Kinect sensor device with a personal computer. Microsoft grants these additional rights in the SDK Beta license, but only for uses of the Kinect sensor device in connection with the SDK Beta. If you use the Kinect sensor with a platform other than Xbox 360, Xbox 360 S, or Windows (with the SDK Beta), you void the warranty you received when you purchased the Kinect sensor device.

sliverstorm 15y ago
Can't you just be happy for a minute that they even released a public SDK?
- AdamTReineke 15y ago
  The terms on the beta are pretty restrictive. It's better than nothing, but basically it's non-profit, educational stuff only. A little discouraging to start working with, especially when I couldn't find any concrete info about future commercial SDK.
  - sliverstorm 15y ago
    It's a beta for something they never even meant to make a pre-alpha of. They probably just don't want to be held responsible when a commercial user makes a fit over lack of support for bugs he found in beta software
tgrisfal 15y ago
I got mine second-hand. Somehow, the warranty and all other license materials weren't included. I can has open source now?

kenjackson 15y ago

I still think the Kinect technology is most interesting for the living room or public places (where you don't want ppl interacting with a physical object, if at all possible). Not sure I think my office is where it has as much use.

Newky 15y ago

Can't watch the launch demo because I don't have silverlight! Not what I hoped for as the SDK, but as others have said I think its their most innovative product and what may in the end crack open an area for them to innovate in.

peregrine 15y ago

I don't understand why Microsoft couldn't have just endorsed OpenNI, fixed the drivers, created some Visual Studio/.net integration and been done with it. Would have spent half as much time in development, cost them less and given them the same exact product. And anyone, even without a Windows Machine or Visual Studio could have worked on this. I definitely answered my own question.