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I find it outrageous that you fail to see why people compulsively hate Bush - did you miss the whole Iraq war?

WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
Compulsive hate isn't known to be healthy. and The challenge wasn't the reasonable outrage over the Iraq war, it was the selective outrage. The earliest protests tended to be from folks who were silent during Clinton incursions. One could make worthy arguments that some wars are not outrageous while others are - however it may not hold up well when one considers how Bush's war became largely uninteresting (to protesters and to news orgs) when it transferred into Obama's hands. Code Pink (who has been wholly consistent) couldn't get the time of day after 1/20/2009. To be clear, my assertion isn't intended to demonize the left but to highlight a general inconsistency. Refined with age, my position this: By failing to hold reasonable PotUS accountable, we gift power to unreasonable ones. (ref: see FastTrack Authority or Record Number Of Whistleblowers Prosecuted For Espionage)
- not_kurt_godel 6y ago
  Bush expanded executive power tremendously in his first term - how did you hold him accountable by voting for him again after that?
  - WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
    I mostly came around during the 2nd term. By the end I was consistently speaking out against them. Unfortunately, the press appetite for addressing administration misdeeds dropped off a cliff, once the the subsequent administration took office. That provided lots of cover to expand them - as the record number of whistleblowers who were prosecuted for espionage can testify.
    - not_kurt_godel 6y ago
      Which press specifically are you referring to? I've seen many articles from both sides of the political spectrum calling out Obama for his whistleblower crackdown. IMO the real issue isn't press coverage, it's the lack of credible solutions from the right to address the problems (or even just good-faith discussion).
      - WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
        > Which press specifically are you referring to? Are you asking for the names of specific news orgs? Would requests for publishing stats and word count follow? This doesn't measure any one/more 'press specifically' - or even media directly - but it does reflect the moments that the media lost interest in the Iraq War https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=iraq%20war https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=i... I'd offer trends about Obama+whistleblower+espionage but there don't seem to be any. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=Obama%20espionage%20whistleblower&geo=US https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=Obama%20espionage... > I've seen many articles from both sides of the political spectrum calling out Obama for his whistleblower crackdown. If you are recalling days of headline clusters criticizing the Obama admin for prosecuting whistleblowers - then we are clearly debating from different physical universes. Of the ~doz journalists I've approached on Twitter, one was sort of aware of Obama admin's record espionage prosecutions. Most suspected it was another invented RW delusion, at first. Of note: There has been even less coverage of Trump admin's mistreatment of whistleblowers - the number which may have exceeded Obama admin. It illustrates why my criticism of the press long ago shifted from one of bias to one of general, persistent ineptitude. However, 4 years of Trump admin coverage brings me some hope - that some journalists have relearned their 1A implied duties; that they may not repeat their 8yr Obama hiatus with this admin. sidebar: I'm on a mission to convince RW America to shift their complaint from press bias to press incompetency.
        not_kurt_godel 6y ago
        > Are you asking for the names of specific news orgs? Would requests for publishing stats and word count follow? What I'm getting at is I recall seeing a number of articles about it during his presidency, and with some quick searching I was easily able to dig up articles from CNN, WaPo, HuffPost, other left-leaning outlets calling him out. A slight tweak to your trend search further corroborates that it wasn't ignored: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=Obama+whistleblower https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=O... As for interest in the Iraq War waning, surely you can see that A. Obama didn't start it, he inherited a quagmire, and while much can be said about how well he did or didn't handle it, it was fundamentally created by Bush and B. the country had a far more pressing issue with the great recession in the timeframe in question. Regarding supposed press ineptitude - would you not agree that the right is by far the bigger problem in this equation with Fox, Breitbart, and a well-documented proclivity for spreading fake news? I'm all for calling out bad journalism - I just don't agree that your both-sides take is accurate.

Compulsive hate isn't known to be healthy. and The challenge wasn't the reasonable outrage over the Iraq war, it was the selective outrage. The earliest protests tended to be from folks who were silent during Clinton incursions. One could make worthy arguments that some wars are not outrageous while others are - however it may not hold up well when one considers how Bush's war became largely uninteresting (to protesters and to news orgs) when it transferred into Obama's hands. Code Pink (who has been wholly consistent) couldn't get the time of day after 1/20/2009. To be clear, my assertion isn't intended to demonize the left but to highlight a general inconsistency. Refined with age, my position this: By failing to hold reasonable PotUS accountable, we gift power to unreasonable ones. (ref: see FastTrack Authority or Record Number Of Whistleblowers Prosecuted For Espionage)

not_kurt_godel 6y ago
Bush expanded executive power tremendously in his first term - how did you hold him accountable by voting for him again after that?
- WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
  I mostly came around during the 2nd term. By the end I was consistently speaking out against them. Unfortunately, the press appetite for addressing administration misdeeds dropped off a cliff, once the the subsequent administration took office. That provided lots of cover to expand them - as the record number of whistleblowers who were prosecuted for espionage can testify.
  - not_kurt_godel 6y ago
    Which press specifically are you referring to? I've seen many articles from both sides of the political spectrum calling out Obama for his whistleblower crackdown. IMO the real issue isn't press coverage, it's the lack of credible solutions from the right to address the problems (or even just good-faith discussion).
    - WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
      > Which press specifically are you referring to? Are you asking for the names of specific news orgs? Would requests for publishing stats and word count follow? This doesn't measure any one/more 'press specifically' - or even media directly - but it does reflect the moments that the media lost interest in the Iraq War https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=iraq%20war https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=i... I'd offer trends about Obama+whistleblower+espionage but there don't seem to be any. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=Obama%20espionage%20whistleblower&geo=US https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=Obama%20espionage... > I've seen many articles from both sides of the political spectrum calling out Obama for his whistleblower crackdown. If you are recalling days of headline clusters criticizing the Obama admin for prosecuting whistleblowers - then we are clearly debating from different physical universes. Of the ~doz journalists I've approached on Twitter, one was sort of aware of Obama admin's record espionage prosecutions. Most suspected it was another invented RW delusion, at first. Of note: There has been even less coverage of Trump admin's mistreatment of whistleblowers - the number which may have exceeded Obama admin. It illustrates why my criticism of the press long ago shifted from one of bias to one of general, persistent ineptitude. However, 4 years of Trump admin coverage brings me some hope - that some journalists have relearned their 1A implied duties; that they may not repeat their 8yr Obama hiatus with this admin. sidebar: I'm on a mission to convince RW America to shift their complaint from press bias to press incompetency.
      - not_kurt_godel 6y ago
        > Are you asking for the names of specific news orgs? Would requests for publishing stats and word count follow? What I'm getting at is I recall seeing a number of articles about it during his presidency, and with some quick searching I was easily able to dig up articles from CNN, WaPo, HuffPost, other left-leaning outlets calling him out. A slight tweak to your trend search further corroborates that it wasn't ignored: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=Obama+whistleblower https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=O... As for interest in the Iraq War waning, surely you can see that A. Obama didn't start it, he inherited a quagmire, and while much can be said about how well he did or didn't handle it, it was fundamentally created by Bush and B. the country had a far more pressing issue with the great recession in the timeframe in question. Regarding supposed press ineptitude - would you not agree that the right is by far the bigger problem in this equation with Fox, Breitbart, and a well-documented proclivity for spreading fake news? I'm all for calling out bad journalism - I just don't agree that your both-sides take is accurate.