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I disagree about it not being a useful model for teaching stuff. In particular as a facilities based ISP, you have to care about what the OSI layer 1 is, becaus
by walrus01 6y ago
I disagree about it not being a useful model for teaching stuff. In particular as a facilities based ISP, you have to care about what the OSI layer 1 is, because ultimately an ISP is built out of real world physical things.
The article seems to skip over concerns about layer 1. But if you have no understanding of how things are engineered at layer 1, or of the possible failure modes, all sorts of bad things can happen. Or you'll end up buying the wrong thing, or getting bamboozled by equipment vendors once they realize you're not paying attention to the layer 1.
People not understanding layer 1 are how things happen like an ISP sending out somebody to try to install a 10GbE 1310nm/LX circuit to a piece of equipment that was shipped with a multimode SFP+ in it.
Engineering of large complex backbone systems encompasses the overlap between layers 1 and 2. For instance all of the optical engineering that goes into a inter-city DWDM system is "layer 1" - but those same DWDM chassis have 10/100GbE short reach layer 2 transport circuits hanging off of them, to connect to your own ISP's or customers' ISPs' network equipment. Then the controller card in your DWDM system is likely running some form of embedded Linux and has a 100BaseTX/1000BaseT interface in it with an IP address in a management network, it can have an snmpd on it that exposes a set of OIDs to poll by network monitoring gear, it runs an sshd on it it, etc. So you've got layer 3 and layer 4/5 stuff going on in that same 10RU DWDM box which needs to be taken into account in your network design. Maybe you have a system somewhere which periodically retrieves a text dump of the entire configuration of the DWDM box, whatever its equivalent of a 'show run' is, and stores it in git? That's all layers 4-7.
In the modern all-ethernet world, tons of possible configuration parameters for exactly how the 10 or 100GbE handoffs are set up on each side. And various configuration parameters. Ever encountered somebody who mistakenly ordered a 10GbE WANPHY circuit when it should have been LANPHY, or vice versa? That's an example of why an understanding of the underlying layers of what you're working on is important.
Only once you have a good solid grasp of layers 1 and 2 can you begin to properly architect your network at layer 3.
One thing that I do try to repeat as often as possible, if helping to train NOC and junior neteng people, is that things get very blurry between how software is set up at layers 4-7. The same piece of software that might be doing things at what the OSI model would call layer 4 may also have a end user GUI/presentation/operator interface that would be defined as layer 7. I do not think that mentally imagining rigid definitions between layers 4-7 is very useful these days.
I personally think that as a method of understanding network architecture, the first level of layers 1-3, and 4, are much more useful than the blurry "4-7" model.
- duskwuff 6y agoYou're missing the point. Yes, understanding the different layers involved in a network is important. But the OSI model is the wrong way to explain those layers, because it's a different network/software architecture from the one which was implemented in the Internet. The "blurriness" you're referring to in layers 4-7 is literally because those layers are describing software which was never written.
- walrus01 6y agoOh, absolutely agree on that, trying to actually make the OSI model as it was intended a real thing in real life would be an utter exercise in futility. I was thinking purely of how the OSI model concepts can be mapped to things we have built and use now on LANs and WANs, as an educational/mental model concept.
- Mauricebranagh 6y agoThere where full x.400 based systems that did use all the layers - I worked as third line support on the UK ADMD back in the day.
- slaymaker1907 6y agoI do think the upper layers are reasonable as long as you condense them down into transport and application layers. Transport has historically been either UDP or TCP, but I think a better definition is a layer which provides "meta" level guarantees. Under that definition TLS is also a transport technology (providing encryption) and even HTTP could be part of the transport layer since it can provide automatic caching and the ability to be used from the browser (kind of a tautology, but significant since the browser has become so important).
- zamadatix 6y agoEvery time someone says the 7 layer OSI model is actually good for teaching they go on to describe teaching the TCP model instead where you have: 1) Link (physical) 2) Internet (IPv4 or IPv6 these days) 3) Transport (UDP or TCP or whatever) 4) Application (stuff handled by the application logic) Which is precisely what people mean when they say the OSI model is bad to teach. It's not that using a layered abstract model is bad for teaching it's that the 7 layer OSI model is bad for teaching.