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Of course there is a cultural difference between how much numbers speak in different cultures. What you want the world to be isn't what the world is, and in th

Of course there is a cultural difference between how much numbers speak in different cultures. What you want the world to be isn't what the world is, and in this case it's true, as by law in the Netherlands, various promotional and termination choices are required to be justified by numbers, which is not the case in Anglo-Saxon countries, where employers are more so at liberty to subjectively assess whom they wish to promote, and whom not.

sidlls 6y ago
Yes, and I'm sure the Dutch robotically compute such numbers, and there is rarely or never any subjectivity in their decision making that is justified ex post facto by clever accounting.
- Blikkentrekker 6y ago
  You're attacking a straw man of things I never said. I simply said that in Dutch decisions of whom to promote, numbers play a greater sway than in Anglo-Saxon promotions; the claim you are attacking is another altogether.
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    Your remarks kind of sound pretty dismissive of and attacking towards Anglo-Saxon culture and I think some people get tired of hearing about supposed "Dutch superiority." The Dutch don't have everything beautifully and perfectly sorted, though they do appear to have a better track record in certain respects than average. The Dutch cultural tendency to be very blunt is probably not helping your case. I'm leaving this comment in hopes of being personally helpful to you as an individual and it's probably foolish for me to do so. It would probably be better for me to say nothing, but it's just kind of a pet peeve of mine so to speak, so I am doing it anyway.
    - Blikkentrekker 6y ago
      > Your remarks kind of sound pretty dismissive of and attacking towards Anglo-Saxon culture and I think some people get tired of hearing about supposed "Dutch superiority." The Dutch don't have everything beautifully and perfectly sorted, though they do appear to have a better track record in certain respects than average. This entire thread is a sea of doomsday tears of fatalism and how bad it is, and how the culture is on a collision course with death, and mine was the perspective that I'm skeptical that it's truly as bad as they claim. I'm far less dismissive of their own culture than they are. But indeed, what they're tired of is not dismissing Anglo-Saxon culture, but that an outsider does so and having to hear that it's not the entire world. They're own dismissals are far greater than mine. > The Dutch cultural tendency to be very blunt is probably not helping your case. My case? is it not further evidence of my thesis that there are cultural differences at play here? One may assume that is is only to be expected that in a blunter culture, one would be less inclined to use sexism as an excuse when one be criticized. Indeed, the Anglo-Saxon's famed tendency for politeness might very well be a contributing factor, if again, it truly be the case that it is so common for sexism to be used as an excuse when criticism be leveled. > I'm leaving this comment in hopes of being personally helpful to you as an individual and it's probably foolish for me to do so. It would probably be better for me to say nothing, but it's just kind of a pet peeve of mine so to speak, so I am doing it anyway. You are free to do so, and I am free to disagree and point out the opposite. From my perspective, it comes across as a petulant child who excessively and unreasonably talks about a culture that is failing, but lashes out defensively when an outsider chimes in and says “It might be bad, but I'm not sure it's as bad as you claim.”, for then it is an outsider who does so, and apparently that crosses the line, not the dismissal in and of itself.
      - DoreenMichele 6y ago
        it comes across as a petulant child That's basically a personal attack. I'm not someone who downvoted you and my above remark was my first reply to you. Have a good day.
        Blikkentrekker 6y ago
  - sidlls 6y ago
    No, I'm attacking your claim that "numbers play a greater sway" in Dutch employment/investment practices. The claim can be technically true, in that laws or cultural norms might require an employer to put numbers to paper to justify a promotion or termination (for example), while at the same time being misleading, in that the numbers can easily be used as an ex post facto justification. Bluntly, I am skeptical that the Dutch are any better at belaying their subjective biases than any other culture--anglo, asian, or otherwise. You may believe you are simply bluntly stating a truth as you see it, but the reality is that you are displaying your own blinders (and comically acting superior while doing so). Your culture produced Pim and Geert: bluntly, it's hilarious that you think you're stating any truth, here.
    - Blikkentrekker 6y ago
      > No, I'm attacking your claim that "numbers play a greater sway" in Dutch employment/investment practices. An how would this claim be attacked by this passage: > Yes, and I'm sure the Dutch robotically compute such numbers, and there is rarely or never any subjectivity in their decision making that is justified ex post facto by clever accounting. How the numbers are derived is completely unrelated to how large the role they play is. > The claim can be technically true, in that laws or cultural norms might require an employer to put numbers to paper to justify a promotion or termination (for example), while at the same time being misleading, in that the numbers can easily be used as an ex post facto justification. So you aren't attacking the claim itself; you're merely saying that the claim is misleading. > Bluntly, I am skeptical that the Dutch are any better at belaying their subjective biases than any other culture--anglo, asian, or otherwise. Perhaps you are, but again, I never said anything of the sort, so I'm again pointing to that you are attacking a straw man. As an side-note. I am sceptical of the existence of such a thing as “Asian culture.”; — I personally find that Chinese culture is further removed from, say, Japanese culture, than Japanese culture is from, say, English culture, especially after the cultural revolution in China. — I have viewed several cultural indicies which attempt to numerically classify various properties of various cultures and they do indeed tend to place Japan closer to England than to China in many respects. > Your culture produced Pim and Geert: bluntly, it's hilarious that you think you're stating any truth, here. None of which has anything to do with anything I said. I find your claim that you aren't attacking straw men to be even more mystifying if you think this is an argument against what I said. This is an argument of the level of “If evolution be true? then how come atheists couldn't stop 9/11?”. — this is an absolutely bizarre connexion you made here of two completely unrelated matters.

sidlls 6y ago

Yes, and I'm sure the Dutch robotically compute such numbers, and there is rarely or never any subjectivity in their decision making that is justified ex post facto by clever accounting.

Blikkentrekker 6y ago
You're attacking a straw man of things I never said. I simply said that in Dutch decisions of whom to promote, numbers play a greater sway than in Anglo-Saxon promotions; the claim you are attacking is another altogether.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  Your remarks kind of sound pretty dismissive of and attacking towards Anglo-Saxon culture and I think some people get tired of hearing about supposed "Dutch superiority." The Dutch don't have everything beautifully and perfectly sorted, though they do appear to have a better track record in certain respects than average. The Dutch cultural tendency to be very blunt is probably not helping your case. I'm leaving this comment in hopes of being personally helpful to you as an individual and it's probably foolish for me to do so. It would probably be better for me to say nothing, but it's just kind of a pet peeve of mine so to speak, so I am doing it anyway.
  - Blikkentrekker 6y ago
    > Your remarks kind of sound pretty dismissive of and attacking towards Anglo-Saxon culture and I think some people get tired of hearing about supposed "Dutch superiority." The Dutch don't have everything beautifully and perfectly sorted, though they do appear to have a better track record in certain respects than average. This entire thread is a sea of doomsday tears of fatalism and how bad it is, and how the culture is on a collision course with death, and mine was the perspective that I'm skeptical that it's truly as bad as they claim. I'm far less dismissive of their own culture than they are. But indeed, what they're tired of is not dismissing Anglo-Saxon culture, but that an outsider does so and having to hear that it's not the entire world. They're own dismissals are far greater than mine. > The Dutch cultural tendency to be very blunt is probably not helping your case. My case? is it not further evidence of my thesis that there are cultural differences at play here? One may assume that is is only to be expected that in a blunter culture, one would be less inclined to use sexism as an excuse when one be criticized. Indeed, the Anglo-Saxon's famed tendency for politeness might very well be a contributing factor, if again, it truly be the case that it is so common for sexism to be used as an excuse when criticism be leveled. > I'm leaving this comment in hopes of being personally helpful to you as an individual and it's probably foolish for me to do so. It would probably be better for me to say nothing, but it's just kind of a pet peeve of mine so to speak, so I am doing it anyway. You are free to do so, and I am free to disagree and point out the opposite. From my perspective, it comes across as a petulant child who excessively and unreasonably talks about a culture that is failing, but lashes out defensively when an outsider chimes in and says “It might be bad, but I'm not sure it's as bad as you claim.”, for then it is an outsider who does so, and apparently that crosses the line, not the dismissal in and of itself.
    - DoreenMichele 6y ago
      it comes across as a petulant child That's basically a personal attack. I'm not someone who downvoted you and my above remark was my first reply to you. Have a good day.
      - Blikkentrekker 6y ago
- sidlls 6y ago
  No, I'm attacking your claim that "numbers play a greater sway" in Dutch employment/investment practices. The claim can be technically true, in that laws or cultural norms might require an employer to put numbers to paper to justify a promotion or termination (for example), while at the same time being misleading, in that the numbers can easily be used as an ex post facto justification. Bluntly, I am skeptical that the Dutch are any better at belaying their subjective biases than any other culture--anglo, asian, or otherwise. You may believe you are simply bluntly stating a truth as you see it, but the reality is that you are displaying your own blinders (and comically acting superior while doing so). Your culture produced Pim and Geert: bluntly, it's hilarious that you think you're stating any truth, here.
  - Blikkentrekker 6y ago
    > No, I'm attacking your claim that "numbers play a greater sway" in Dutch employment/investment practices. An how would this claim be attacked by this passage: > Yes, and I'm sure the Dutch robotically compute such numbers, and there is rarely or never any subjectivity in their decision making that is justified ex post facto by clever accounting. How the numbers are derived is completely unrelated to how large the role they play is. > The claim can be technically true, in that laws or cultural norms might require an employer to put numbers to paper to justify a promotion or termination (for example), while at the same time being misleading, in that the numbers can easily be used as an ex post facto justification. So you aren't attacking the claim itself; you're merely saying that the claim is misleading. > Bluntly, I am skeptical that the Dutch are any better at belaying their subjective biases than any other culture--anglo, asian, or otherwise. Perhaps you are, but again, I never said anything of the sort, so I'm again pointing to that you are attacking a straw man. As an side-note. I am sceptical of the existence of such a thing as “Asian culture.”; — I personally find that Chinese culture is further removed from, say, Japanese culture, than Japanese culture is from, say, English culture, especially after the cultural revolution in China. — I have viewed several cultural indicies which attempt to numerically classify various properties of various cultures and they do indeed tend to place Japan closer to England than to China in many respects. > Your culture produced Pim and Geert: bluntly, it's hilarious that you think you're stating any truth, here. None of which has anything to do with anything I said. I find your claim that you aren't attacking straw men to be even more mystifying if you think this is an argument against what I said. This is an argument of the level of “If evolution be true? then how come atheists couldn't stop 9/11?”. — this is an absolutely bizarre connexion you made here of two completely unrelated matters.