5 ms·
I kind of empathize with Bezos, there's a certain tone of entitlement to this entire saga. Amazon doesn't own anybody a job, if working conditions are shit (but
by asjldkfin 6y ago
I kind of empathize with Bezos, there's a certain tone of entitlement to this entire saga. Amazon doesn't own anybody a job, if working conditions are shit (but assuming it's legal), you should quit.
If Amazon is your best option, then you should be grateful for it.
If I went to work everyday, complained loudly about how much the job sucks, I wouldn't have a job anymore and I'd understand. To think I'd be able to criticize my organization and still be entitled to a job is lunacy.
- codeduck 6y agoSomething being legal does not make it right or just.
- asjldkfin 6y agoI would argue the "justice" system is the best determinant of what's "just" by definition.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- bavent 6y agoBut ideas of what is “just” change and the justice system is often slow to react. Sometimes things that are technically unjust (banning gay marriage) are allowed. Slavery was once legal. Justice system at the time said so. Also, as an anecdote, speaking as someone who has participated in the justice system quite a bit, for me it was very rarely the best determinant of what was “just” on the small scale of my life. I would hesitate to assume on the larger scale of society as a whole it is any more accurate.
- asjldkfin 6y agoThe problem is that the "justice system" is the only universally agreed upon system. The alternative is everybody upholds their own justice and we have anarchy. If you want to change the justice system, go ahead. But there's a difference between changing labour laws and going after one specific company.
- michaelpb 6y agoI would argue that your argument from tautology is stunningly silly and you should get out more lol
- asjldkfin 6y agoI find your ad-hominem attack stunningly silly, and your use of stock logical cliches even more so.
- danaliv 6y agoI can call my car a “flying system” all day long. Doesn’t make it an airplane.
- mimikatz 6y agoSure, but it isn't just legal it's better (in some ways) than most things in the same class. Amazon tracks you and makes you work harder, but compensates you better and doesn't fuck around with hours as much as other jobs in the same fields. It does seem unfair to target them specifically. For example the piss bottles. It is a thing for truckers and delivery workers to piss in bottles. UPS people, FedEx people, Truckers more than the others will talk about it anonymously. But everyone acts like Amazon isn't acting within the unspoken norms of society.
- tayo42 6y agoThen why should we have any worker protection laws. Shouldn't everyone just be greatful. There's a massive power imbalance between individuals and corporations. In a way they are modern royalty, controlling a large amount of the world
- asjldkfin 6y agoBut Amazon didn't break any worker protection laws, they're within bounds.
- colejohnson66 6y agoThey're tiptoeing the line. So, yes, you're right; They haven't broken the law, but when they have to stand right on that line to get what they want, it's clear they want to go past it.
- tayo42 6y agoSo we should change the rules? Accepting laws because that's the way it is to be blunt silly. Why do we have child labor laws? Those families and children should have just been greatful? Or maybe things can be better and the law isn't perfect
- asjldkfin 6y agoSure, change the rules. If you can get everybody to agree to it. But until then, what's legal is legal; and Amazon is within the bounds of the law.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- tomjakubowski 6y ago> To think I'd be able to criticize my organization and still be entitled to a job is lunacy. Well I would certainly never want to work for an organization that would fire someone, especially a good coworker, for this.
- asjldkfin 6y agoI wouldn't either; that's why I don't. Just like how these people, if they don't want to work for Amazon, shouldn't.
- hiddencost 6y agoPervasive trend in America: erode peoples' standard of living, erode the laws protecting them from abusive working environments, force them into a position where they only have the option of working for one company, and then blame them for trying to ask for better conditions. If you went into your job every day and criticized the job with a coworker, you would in fact not lose your job (or have the option for a nice settlement), because American labor law specifically protects workers' rights to talk about their working conditions?
- asjldkfin 6y agoThat's a gross exaggeration; Amazon is not even close to being the only company you can work for.
- paulryanrogers 6y agoYet options are dwindling here where I am. As a teen there was a shopping mall packed with choices. Now the nearby mall has so many vacant slots it's a wonder they're still open.
- larsiusprime 6y agoThe point is that in many of these communities where retail jobs have been absolutely decimated (because of Amazon), working for Amazon is often the only game in town
- asjldkfin 6y agoMove somewhere else. If you can't find a perfered job in your hometown, you don't force the local company to make a job to your satisfaction, you move to a different part of the country. Why should these people get any other type of consideration.
- jasonjayr 6y agoWe're not asking them to make the job to our satisfaction. We're asking them to treat people with the minimum of respect and dignity.
- stevewodil 6y agoI think it's generally okay to complain about a system that forces you to pee in bottles due to lack of restroom breaks. People have quit, and they still have every right to complain even after quitting
- asjldkfin 6y agoSure, but then why are you still working there if its so terrible?
- edoceo 6y agoTry to imagine a situation where this crappy job is the best of the available options.
- elil17 6y agoMost people in America would not have any money for food or shelter if they missed just one paycheck. When the option is between pissing in a bottle and becoming homeless, most people will piss in the bottle. That's a choice people shouldn't have to make.
- throwawaysea 6y agoThey’re not forcing anyone and most workers don’t do that. The ones that do are probably just not productive and are making up the loss of production by peeing in bottles. That’s not necessarily an indictment of the company. Their policy, from leaked documents, is that workers should not be doing this.
- jasonjayr 6y agoAmazon may not owe them a job, but a government ought to make sure that it's citizens are not treated like animals to just make a living, no matter where they choose to work. It's a shame that any country allows conditions like this to exist, under the excuse of "the free market will solve this problem, just get a job elsewhere" The balance of power between government, people + companies has made this extremely difficult, and the "free market" is just optimizing for this imbalance by allowing conditions to get this bad in the first place.
- asjldkfin 6y agoIf a politician's solution to "making sure people aren't treated like animals" is going after a single company; rather than fixing the system, then they've failed as politicians.
- edoceo 6y agoWe're all out here only able to fix one bug at a time.
- jhayward 6y agoYou fix the system by going after the miscreants and holding them to account, one by one, and accumulating a record that can be used to provide more general laws and regulations for the future. Lawmakers do that by investigating specific companies for specific reasons. You have, by my count at this time, 14 posts in this thread. What is it that you might have left to say that you were unable to put in to words in the first 13?
- Grimm1 6y agoYou make it sound like any of the conditions are pervasive, they employ 876,000 people, if the conditions were as bad as the media makes it seem I would imagine there being more outcry instead of the media having to blow up specific instances of things happening. Where there's smoke there is fire is the saying, so maybe it is that bad but that's not what I understand it to be. Edit: Also from all the documents we've seen it would appear Amazon leaks like a sieve so I would also expect way more damning evidence to have appeared by now.
- paulryanrogers 6y ago> If Amazon is your best option, then you should be grateful for it. As we drift back into company towns here in the Midwest US I do hope change will come before company scrip.