2 ms·

I see, the good old racist card. But no, you're wrong. I have opened bank accounts in three EU countries and the procedure was the same everywhere. No ID, no ba

I see, the good old racist card. But no, you're wrong. I have opened bank accounts in three EU countries and the procedure was the same everywhere. No ID, no bank account. I still have to see a headline like "identity theft ruined my life" in any other language than English. Every single time "furto di identità" makes the news in Italy, it's just about someone impersonating a famous person on social media to scam the followers, which is a completely different thing than in the US. So yeah of course scams and credit card skimmers exist in Italy (though the US's disdain for chip and PIN would be another interesting topic). Dishonest telemarketers convince gullible people to switch into more expensive utilities contracts. But identity theft in the US is not in any way comparable to "scamming". And yeah, PEC ("registered email") is pretty cool. :)

dogma1138 6y ago
Identity theft if very common in Italy for pension fraud, people don’t report deaths of their elderly parents and assume their identities to cash in pensions.
- bonzini 6y ago
  It's not really the same—a caregiver keeping on doing bureaucracy tasks after a person's death, vs. an unknown person using a living person's identity to get loans or credit cards.
  - dogma1138 6y ago
    It’s not just direct carers and it’s still an identity theft, what identity theft can be used for ranges between different countries based on financial incentives in some countries getting a loan or credit is far more easier than others in others state pensions and benefits are higher. In the US stealing the identity of a 30 year old with decent credit can allow you to rack up a decent bill in their name. In Italy the state pension is universal and is about €14,000 a year and whilst in the US technically you can get far more in social security payments the people who are susceptible to identity theft in that group tend to not be the ones who maxed out their contributions over the past 30-40 years.
    - bonzini 6y ago
      No, it's identity fraud which is a superset of identity theft.
      - dogma1138 6y ago
        All identity theft is fraud... you are grasping at straws here.
        bonzini 6y ago
        Right, all identity theft is fraud, but not all identity fraud is theft.
        dogma1138 6y ago
        You assume someone’s identity that’s identity theft...
        bonzini 6y ago
        I can't answer below, so I will leave this here: https://web.archive.org/web/20090627220408/http://www.business.mcmaster.ca/IDTDefinition/defining/idfraudTCF.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20090627220408/http://www.busine... If a person dies the identity arguably belongs to their estate, if they don't declare death and use it to make money illegally it's not stolen.
toyg 6y ago
> the good old racist card Mate, I’m Italian ;) I might be self-hating at best.
arp242 6y ago
I don't speak Italian so I can't really say anything about that, but searching "identity fraud" in Dutch turns up plenty of results: https://www.google.nl/search?q=identiteitsfraude&hl=nl https://www.google.nl/search?q=identiteitsfraude&hl=nl Here's a "identity theft ruined my life" story: https://www.ad.nl/tech/hanna-krijgt-door-identiteitsfraude-incassobureaus-aan-de-deur-kom-op-dat-dit-zomaar-kan-br~a353d889/ https://www.ad.nl/tech/hanna-krijgt-door-identiteitsfraude-i... The problem might be worse in the US and UK, but it's not like it doesn't exist at all in the EU.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
michaelmrose 6y ago
I have to wonder if part of the difference is down to how we deal with creditors in the US and the financial welfare of the population. We have a huge population living paycheck to paycheck with almost no cushion for crisis and we have a system where creditors can take the money from your bank account or directly from you wages. If the money acquired by a creditor was what was needed to pay your rent you could be looking at eviction in short order. The law in my state until 2020 required only a 3 day delay to begin eviction for non payment. It used to be possible to be due on May 1st. Receive an eviction notice on May 4th and be homeless by mid month. I think it now takes a whole month for your life to disintegrate. Being homeless doesn't bode extremely well for you continued employment as a handful of missed days can terminate your employment. Being jobless doesn't bode well for your health insurance which there is no way you can afford to maintain past employment. Being without insurance, job, money doesn't bode well for being able to afford medical care hopefully you aren't receiving continuing care for a major medical situation because you might be dead. I have to hope western Europe isn't remotely like that.

dogma1138 6y ago

Identity theft if very common in Italy for pension fraud, people don’t report deaths of their elderly parents and assume their identities to cash in pensions.

bonzini 6y ago
It's not really the same—a caregiver keeping on doing bureaucracy tasks after a person's death, vs. an unknown person using a living person's identity to get loans or credit cards.
- dogma1138 6y ago
  It’s not just direct carers and it’s still an identity theft, what identity theft can be used for ranges between different countries based on financial incentives in some countries getting a loan or credit is far more easier than others in others state pensions and benefits are higher. In the US stealing the identity of a 30 year old with decent credit can allow you to rack up a decent bill in their name. In Italy the state pension is universal and is about €14,000 a year and whilst in the US technically you can get far more in social security payments the people who are susceptible to identity theft in that group tend to not be the ones who maxed out their contributions over the past 30-40 years.
  - bonzini 6y ago
    No, it's identity fraud which is a superset of identity theft.
    - dogma1138 6y ago
      All identity theft is fraud... you are grasping at straws here.
      - bonzini 6y ago
        Right, all identity theft is fraud, but not all identity fraud is theft.
        dogma1138 6y ago
        You assume someone’s identity that’s identity theft...
        bonzini 6y ago
        I can't answer below, so I will leave this here: https://web.archive.org/web/20090627220408/http://www.business.mcmaster.ca/IDTDefinition/defining/idfraudTCF.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20090627220408/http://www.busine... If a person dies the identity arguably belongs to their estate, if they don't declare death and use it to make money illegally it's not stolen.

toyg 6y ago

> the good old racist card Mate, I’m Italian ;) I might be self-hating at best.

arp242 6y ago

I don't speak Italian so I can't really say anything about that, but searching "identity fraud" in Dutch turns up plenty of results: https://www.google.nl/search?q=identiteitsfraude&hl=nl https://www.google.nl/search?q=identiteitsfraude&hl=nl Here's a "identity theft ruined my life" story: https://www.ad.nl/tech/hanna-krijgt-door-identiteitsfraude-incassobureaus-aan-de-deur-kom-op-dat-dit-zomaar-kan-br~a353d889/ https://www.ad.nl/tech/hanna-krijgt-door-identiteitsfraude-i... The problem might be worse in the US and UK, but it's not like it doesn't exist at all in the EU.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

michaelmrose 6y ago

I have to wonder if part of the difference is down to how we deal with creditors in the US and the financial welfare of the population. We have a huge population living paycheck to paycheck with almost no cushion for crisis and we have a system where creditors can take the money from your bank account or directly from you wages. If the money acquired by a creditor was what was needed to pay your rent you could be looking at eviction in short order. The law in my state until 2020 required only a 3 day delay to begin eviction for non payment. It used to be possible to be due on May 1st. Receive an eviction notice on May 4th and be homeless by mid month. I think it now takes a whole month for your life to disintegrate. Being homeless doesn't bode extremely well for you continued employment as a handful of missed days can terminate your employment. Being jobless doesn't bode well for your health insurance which there is no way you can afford to maintain past employment. Being without insurance, job, money doesn't bode well for being able to afford medical care hopefully you aren't receiving continuing care for a major medical situation because you might be dead. I have to hope western Europe isn't remotely like that.