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I take issue with this article because it would come across to me as a red flag about work-life balance. That an employer would expect you to be doing something

I take issue with this article because it would come across to me as a red flag about work-life balance. That an employer would expect you to be doing something programming related in your spare time comes across as a bit self-serving. Instead, I would ask "What would you like to develop in your spare time, if you had any?" That way they can answer the same as his question if they are working on stuff, but can still show interest in programming otherwise. Frankly, yeah, it can be hard to stay on top of things, and companies that don't foster learning and expect you to do it all on your own time don't help.

synnik 15y ago
It is always dangerous to assume what answers are desired by an interviewer. Interviews are not just to get the job - it is to determine whether or not you would even want the job in the first place. So in this particular case, I would answer something about how I have taught my kids multiple languages, taught them kung fu, helped them to develop their own hobbies and become their own people, while at the same time working with local non-profits on renewable energy technologies. If they do not like that answer and would have preferred a list of open source/weekend projects, it is probably not a place I would have fit in anyway.
- garindra 15y ago
  A question : are you in the Computer Science field? While I think that the way you would answer may work beautifully in other fields, we also have to think about the employer's best interest and the field we're talking about here. Employer's best interest, across most if not all fields, is primarily to hire people that have skills that will be useful in creating advantage of the company as a whole. In the case of Computer Science field, then, having an employee that answers that particular interview question with how he/she has contributed to open source and/or created side projects will have higher probability to create more value for the company than an employee that answers with how he/she is a great parent or how he/she's working in a non-profit of unrelated field.
  - infinite8s 15y ago
    And as the grandparent post mentioned, he would probably not be interested in working at companies that focused so much on what their employees did in their free time.
  - synnik 15y ago
    I am a software developer in the energy industry. So whether or not that is Computer Science is up for debate. I do need to have my skills up on the technology in use, and I most definitely need to have a solid understanding of technology. But I do not need to know the latest and greatest flavors of it.
  - MrScruff 15y ago
    Most people writing here are not generally practicing computer science, but rather focusing on software development. For me, good communication skills, an ability to understand project requirements and a focused and responsible attitude are often worth more in an employee than an exhaustive knowledge of design patterns.
Shenglong 15y ago
From an employer perspective, they're trying to gauge drive and interest. While these questions may not be completely fair, and will exclude a lot of competent people, it is a decently good way to measure what they're looking for. I suppose, it's just a sad situation.
- tjogin 15y ago
  Yeah, kind of, but the false negatives are really severe. You want to select people who really care about development, and while that question might be a pretty good filter for people in their early twenties, it's also a good way to filter out those who have a decade+ more experience but have other life priorities, like a family. Certainly, their extra decade or more of work and life experience outweighs the inconvenience of them not programming very much in their spare time.
  - trustfundbaby 15y ago
    Certainly, their extra decade or more of work and life experience outweighs the inconvenience of them not programming very much in their spare time. ------------------------------- A good developer with a decade of work/life experience would have built something in his spare time in the past ... when life wasn't always that hectic. That would work for me too, I'm sure a "I don't do a lot of programming after work now, but when I had more spare time, I did x" should suffice. Plus, its not a disqualifier ... you don't discard an interviewee just because they don't have side projects that they've done.
andywood 15y ago
I don't think side projects are mutually exclusive with work-life balance. Granted, I don't have children; but aside from that, I think I've been living a very full and action-packed life. Time-consuming outdoor hobbies, girlfriends, friends, going out, travelling - check. I also waste sickening amounts of time on sites like this one, and playing video games. Yet I've found plenty of time over the years to work on two large side projects (both ultimate passions), and several smaller ones (like iPhone apps). Nothing says you have to spend ALL of your spare time doing ONE thing. You can rotate. I can certainly accept that some people's circumstances are such that they really don't have the time, but I think casting side projects as necessarily creating time conflicts is wrong.
- mrcharles 15y ago
  I do agree with you, but my reaction is that what I do on my own time is my business and has absolutely no bearing on anything else, and that asking about it is borderline invasion of privacy. Maybe I work on stuff I don't want to talk about all night long, or maybe I don't work on anything at all when I get home because what I'm doing at work fulfills me. Either way, it should have no bearing on an interview.
  - trustfundbaby 15y ago
    my reaction is that what I do on my own time is my business and has absolutely no bearing on anything else, and that asking about it is borderline invasion of privacy ------------------------- I'm not seeing the invasion of privacy ... its a relevant question that is strictly limited to your development/engineering experience ... what you learn on side projects has bearing on your knowledge as a developer, if you don't want to reveal that, great, but most people that do have side projects have no reservations talking about it when prompted (unless its top secret or illegal)> I'm sure a good interviewer can find a way establish your proficiency based on your work experience etc Maybe I work on stuff I don't want to talk about all night long, or maybe I don't work on anything at all when I get home because what I'm doing at work fulfills me ---------------------------------------- Great. Doesn't change the fact that its enough of a trend among good developers to be used in an interview, to help you zero in on the really good guys.
trustfundbaby 15y ago
I take issue with this article because it would come across to me as a red flag about work-life balance. That an employer would expect you to be doing something programming related in your spare time comes across as a bit self-serving. --------------- I think you're reading too much into it ... I've been doing this for 7 years (not that long) and without fail all the really good developers I've ever known or met have built something in their spare time ... just for kicks, a webserver, a firefox addon, some game, a ruby gem, PHP script, a macro for their favorite editor, some electronic gizmo ... something. Not all developers do it, but the very best do ... so its not a disqualifying question, but it sure does allow you zero in on the very best developers rather easily. As an aside ... you should always be looking at code, when you're hiring developers. If they can't give you any examples, then make them write something ... I'm continually shocked by how many companies make $70+k investments in people they've never seen in action.
- irahul 15y ago
  I know some very good developers who didn't do anything in their spare time. One of them was co-inventor of gif format, another was a core contributor to cygwin gdb and so on. But that was all before their day job. When they started their day jobs, that's all they did. Would you discard them as "not so good" because they don't do anything in their spare time and they concentrate on task on hand? Some people have more demanding jobs and/or prefer to work on their day job in their spare time - not because someone is putting a gun on their head, but because they like doing what they do. Why would they bother with side projects when they already have real life projects? Impressing the interviewer isn't on their agenda and all other aspects viz. gratification, joy of creation are the same.
  - trustfundbaby 15y ago
    One of them was co-inventor of gif format, another was a cygwin to contributor to cygwin gdb and so on. But that was all before their day job. Would you discard them as "not so good" because they don't do anything in their spare time? ----------------------------------- No, because their prior accomplishments speak for themselves. You need to stop looking at it as some yardstick to get over and understand that it is simply an informal measure of a developer's passion and drive, just because you don't do it doesn't mean "you suck. NO HIRE!"

I take issue with this article because it would come across to me as a red flag about work-life balance. That an employer would expect you to be doing something programming related in your spare time comes across as a bit self-serving. Instead, I would ask "What would you like to develop in your spare time, if you had any?" That way they can answer the same as his question if they are working on stuff, but can still show interest in programming otherwise. Frankly, yeah, it can be hard to stay on top of things, and companies that don't foster learning and expect you to do it all on your own time don't help.

synnik 15y ago

It is always dangerous to assume what answers are desired by an interviewer. Interviews are not just to get the job - it is to determine whether or not you would even want the job in the first place. So in this particular case, I would answer something about how I have taught my kids multiple languages, taught them kung fu, helped them to develop their own hobbies and become their own people, while at the same time working with local non-profits on renewable energy technologies. If they do not like that answer and would have preferred a list of open source/weekend projects, it is probably not a place I would have fit in anyway.

garindra 15y ago
A question : are you in the Computer Science field? While I think that the way you would answer may work beautifully in other fields, we also have to think about the employer's best interest and the field we're talking about here. Employer's best interest, across most if not all fields, is primarily to hire people that have skills that will be useful in creating advantage of the company as a whole. In the case of Computer Science field, then, having an employee that answers that particular interview question with how he/she has contributed to open source and/or created side projects will have higher probability to create more value for the company than an employee that answers with how he/she is a great parent or how he/she's working in a non-profit of unrelated field.
- infinite8s 15y ago
  And as the grandparent post mentioned, he would probably not be interested in working at companies that focused so much on what their employees did in their free time.
- synnik 15y ago
  I am a software developer in the energy industry. So whether or not that is Computer Science is up for debate. I do need to have my skills up on the technology in use, and I most definitely need to have a solid understanding of technology. But I do not need to know the latest and greatest flavors of it.
- MrScruff 15y ago
  Most people writing here are not generally practicing computer science, but rather focusing on software development. For me, good communication skills, an ability to understand project requirements and a focused and responsible attitude are often worth more in an employee than an exhaustive knowledge of design patterns.

Shenglong 15y ago

From an employer perspective, they're trying to gauge drive and interest. While these questions may not be completely fair, and will exclude a lot of competent people, it is a decently good way to measure what they're looking for. I suppose, it's just a sad situation.

tjogin 15y ago
Yeah, kind of, but the false negatives are really severe. You want to select people who really care about development, and while that question might be a pretty good filter for people in their early twenties, it's also a good way to filter out those who have a decade+ more experience but have other life priorities, like a family. Certainly, their extra decade or more of work and life experience outweighs the inconvenience of them not programming very much in their spare time.
- trustfundbaby 15y ago
  Certainly, their extra decade or more of work and life experience outweighs the inconvenience of them not programming very much in their spare time. ------------------------------- A good developer with a decade of work/life experience would have built something in his spare time in the past ... when life wasn't always that hectic. That would work for me too, I'm sure a "I don't do a lot of programming after work now, but when I had more spare time, I did x" should suffice. Plus, its not a disqualifier ... you don't discard an interviewee just because they don't have side projects that they've done.

andywood 15y ago

I don't think side projects are mutually exclusive with work-life balance. Granted, I don't have children; but aside from that, I think I've been living a very full and action-packed life. Time-consuming outdoor hobbies, girlfriends, friends, going out, travelling - check. I also waste sickening amounts of time on sites like this one, and playing video games. Yet I've found plenty of time over the years to work on two large side projects (both ultimate passions), and several smaller ones (like iPhone apps). Nothing says you have to spend ALL of your spare time doing ONE thing. You can rotate. I can certainly accept that some people's circumstances are such that they really don't have the time, but I think casting side projects as necessarily creating time conflicts is wrong.

mrcharles 15y ago
I do agree with you, but my reaction is that what I do on my own time is my business and has absolutely no bearing on anything else, and that asking about it is borderline invasion of privacy. Maybe I work on stuff I don't want to talk about all night long, or maybe I don't work on anything at all when I get home because what I'm doing at work fulfills me. Either way, it should have no bearing on an interview.
- trustfundbaby 15y ago
  my reaction is that what I do on my own time is my business and has absolutely no bearing on anything else, and that asking about it is borderline invasion of privacy ------------------------- I'm not seeing the invasion of privacy ... its a relevant question that is strictly limited to your development/engineering experience ... what you learn on side projects has bearing on your knowledge as a developer, if you don't want to reveal that, great, but most people that do have side projects have no reservations talking about it when prompted (unless its top secret or illegal)> I'm sure a good interviewer can find a way establish your proficiency based on your work experience etc Maybe I work on stuff I don't want to talk about all night long, or maybe I don't work on anything at all when I get home because what I'm doing at work fulfills me ---------------------------------------- Great. Doesn't change the fact that its enough of a trend among good developers to be used in an interview, to help you zero in on the really good guys.

trustfundbaby 15y ago

I take issue with this article because it would come across to me as a red flag about work-life balance. That an employer would expect you to be doing something programming related in your spare time comes across as a bit self-serving. --------------- I think you're reading too much into it ... I've been doing this for 7 years (not that long) and without fail all the really good developers I've ever known or met have built something in their spare time ... just for kicks, a webserver, a firefox addon, some game, a ruby gem, PHP script, a macro for their favorite editor, some electronic gizmo ... something. Not all developers do it, but the very best do ... so its not a disqualifying question, but it sure does allow you zero in on the very best developers rather easily. As an aside ... you should always be looking at code, when you're hiring developers. If they can't give you any examples, then make them write something ... I'm continually shocked by how many companies make $70+k investments in people they've never seen in action.

irahul 15y ago
I know some very good developers who didn't do anything in their spare time. One of them was co-inventor of gif format, another was a core contributor to cygwin gdb and so on. But that was all before their day job. When they started their day jobs, that's all they did. Would you discard them as "not so good" because they don't do anything in their spare time and they concentrate on task on hand? Some people have more demanding jobs and/or prefer to work on their day job in their spare time - not because someone is putting a gun on their head, but because they like doing what they do. Why would they bother with side projects when they already have real life projects? Impressing the interviewer isn't on their agenda and all other aspects viz. gratification, joy of creation are the same.
- trustfundbaby 15y ago
  One of them was co-inventor of gif format, another was a cygwin to contributor to cygwin gdb and so on. But that was all before their day job. Would you discard them as "not so good" because they don't do anything in their spare time? ----------------------------------- No, because their prior accomplishments speak for themselves. You need to stop looking at it as some yardstick to get over and understand that it is simply an informal measure of a developer's passion and drive, just because you don't do it doesn't mean "you suck. NO HIRE!"