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Some companies will care. Some won't. I mentioned something like this to mine and they upgraded the build server in response. For Jetbrains products, if you

Some companies will care. Some won't. I mentioned something like this to mine and they upgraded the build server in response. For Jetbrains products, if you enjoy them you can use your personal license commercially. Your company just can't pay for it or reimburse you for it. This is the route I go because I use their products for personal projects too. For me it's a no brainer at $150/year for their all-products option (...for the 3rd year, 1st is $250, 2nd is $200).

XorNot 6y ago
I do this as well - its pretty easy to justify a Jetbrains Ultimate subscription for myself since it makes life so much easier.
apple4ever 6y ago
That is all way too much money. If they want more adoption, they need to be under the $100 mark.
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  That's the price for an all you can code subscription to everything. Individual licenses are much cheaper.
- marcinzm 6y ago
  $150/year is too much for developers who earn $100k+/year? I guess you proved the original point of this thread.
  - ipaddr 6y ago
    I think the core point missed in this thread is: developers write software for a living. They do not want to pay for something they would love someone to pay them to write. You see this in other professions. A car mechanic doesn't want to take there car to someone else. A doctor tries to avoid general checkups with other doctors. A realitor will sell their own house. A grass cutter doesn't hire someone to cut his lawn. The person who makes lawnmowers doesn't buy one he makes one even if it takes longer.
    - cema 6y ago
      Then there is this saying that if a lawyer represents himself in a court, he has a fool for a customer
      - lelanthran 6y ago
        > Then there is this saying that if a lawyer represents himself in a court, he has a fool for a customer Also making the reverse assertion true too: that client has a fool for a lawyer :-) Of course, many unsuspecting non-lawyer clients also have fools for lawyers; it's hard to tell whether or not your lawyer is any good (unless his name is Saul Goodman)
    - Stratoscope 6y ago
      I would love for someone to pay me to write an IDE. I've been in that situation a couple of times in the past (SQLWindows, Visual Basic) and it was a lot of fun. However, my current job is developing a voice response system for restaurant drive-thrus. I don't have time to write my own IDE right now! So I farm that out to JetBrains and get to use all of their awesome work for less than fifty cents a day. If that's too much, their free versions are very good too. I may also take exception to this: > A doctor tries to avoid general checkups with other doctors. Wouldn't the opposite be true? As far as I know, every psychiatrist has a psychiatrist, every counselor has a counselor (or should), and I would guess that every doctor has a doctor. A doctor is more likely than the rest of us to have particular insight into their own health, but I don't think they try to do it all alone. Of course I'm only speaking for myself. If anyone prefers to write all their own tools, more power to them!
      - amarant 6y ago
        Agreed. I also run Linux, because at the end of the day, I don't want to write a new OS when someone else had already done that.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - scaladev 6y ago
    Don't forget there are a couple hundred countries besides US. I make a relatively decent living by our standards, but nowhere near close to $100k/year. $150-250 per year is quite a bit of money for us.
    - arthur_sav 6y ago
      I'm surprised it's not at least $1000/year. Even if you make 30k a year, $200 for access to a variety of tools you rely on to do your job is a no brainer.
    - infinite8s 6y ago
      It should be possible for a small devtools company to price differently based on locale, but I expect the support costs would then dominate any of the lower prices customers.
  - arthur_sav 6y ago
    The username makes it even funnier.
    - apple4ever 6y ago
      Only if you don't think about it. I pay more for Apple products because they bring a lot of value. I don't see the value for many developer tools at their price.
  - apple4ever 6y ago
    That's a lot of money to me, despite how much I earn. Especially when the options are free.
    - ta988 6y ago
      Sure you can walk instead of having a bike, a car or taking public transport.
      - apple4ever 6y ago
        I think that's a bad example. A car lets me do a lot of things, not just a single thing. I think development tools are overpriced. Under a $100 I can see. Over that is just too much.
- bigbillheck 6y ago
  $250 (the initial all-you-can-gobble) is a day's wages or less for anybody making more than $62500 (post-tax) per annum, which at least in the US is not a lot at all.
  - thequux 6y ago
    That $250 isn't (generally) tax-deductible. At the moment, I'm making ~€80k as a SWE in Belgium (reasonably good pay but not the highest), and my net income is closer to €150/day. At the top of my career, I expect that I could increase that to at most €200/day because taxation is brutal. This is not to say that I don't pay for tools; I subscribe to the full Jetbrains set among other things. It's just that that wasn't as simple of a decision as you present it.
    - searedsteak 6y ago
      Is it not in Belgium? In Germany you can count this as 'Werbungskosten' which you can deduct from your income. Anything you use for your job or for professional development counts as this type of expense. Don't other countries have similar concepts in their tax systems?
    - bigbillheck 6y ago
      Then for someone in your position it'd be a day and a half of post-tax salary (for the first year), which doesn't sound like a lot either.
  - ta988 6y ago
    And the price goes down over time, third year is $150...
  - apple4ever 6y ago
    $250 is a lot of money for many people, even if they make over $62,000.
- smt1 6y ago
  Gee, I remember when IDE tools cost $5000, then $650. I thought inflation was supposed to go the other way :-)
MattGaiser 6y ago
I get this for free with an annual UX interview, but yes I would pay for Jetbrains personally.
Stratoscope 6y ago
Same here. It costs me less than fifty cents a day to be able to use all the JetBrains IDEs and developer tools and get all their updates, both for my personal projects and for work. I can only speak for myself, but to me, "no brainer" is an understatement.
hyperpallium2 6y ago
I'm toying with the idea of selling developer tools only as personal licenses that can be used commercially. Like a driver's "license", companies must hire "licensed" developers to drive the software. (also licensed plumbers, electricians, accountants, surgeons etc - though true all are skill/knowledge credentials, not simply purchasable; so include an exam). Companies need to hire and pay more for "licensed" developers. It gives power to developers - and then I don't have to sell to managers or deal with uninterested clerks.
- Siira 6y ago
  > It gives power to developers It gives power to senior, rich developers, at the cost of newcomers. It's a toxic zero-sum play, which contributes to, e.g., shitty 10x overpriced health-care.

XorNot 6y ago

I do this as well - its pretty easy to justify a Jetbrains Ultimate subscription for myself since it makes life so much easier.

apple4ever 6y ago

That is all way too much money. If they want more adoption, they need to be under the $100 mark.

MattGaiser 6y ago
That's the price for an all you can code subscription to everything. Individual licenses are much cheaper.
marcinzm 6y ago
$150/year is too much for developers who earn $100k+/year? I guess you proved the original point of this thread.
- ipaddr 6y ago
  I think the core point missed in this thread is: developers write software for a living. They do not want to pay for something they would love someone to pay them to write. You see this in other professions. A car mechanic doesn't want to take there car to someone else. A doctor tries to avoid general checkups with other doctors. A realitor will sell their own house. A grass cutter doesn't hire someone to cut his lawn. The person who makes lawnmowers doesn't buy one he makes one even if it takes longer.
  - cema 6y ago
    Then there is this saying that if a lawyer represents himself in a court, he has a fool for a customer
    - lelanthran 6y ago
      > Then there is this saying that if a lawyer represents himself in a court, he has a fool for a customer Also making the reverse assertion true too: that client has a fool for a lawyer :-) Of course, many unsuspecting non-lawyer clients also have fools for lawyers; it's hard to tell whether or not your lawyer is any good (unless his name is Saul Goodman)
  - Stratoscope 6y ago
    I would love for someone to pay me to write an IDE. I've been in that situation a couple of times in the past (SQLWindows, Visual Basic) and it was a lot of fun. However, my current job is developing a voice response system for restaurant drive-thrus. I don't have time to write my own IDE right now! So I farm that out to JetBrains and get to use all of their awesome work for less than fifty cents a day. If that's too much, their free versions are very good too. I may also take exception to this: > A doctor tries to avoid general checkups with other doctors. Wouldn't the opposite be true? As far as I know, every psychiatrist has a psychiatrist, every counselor has a counselor (or should), and I would guess that every doctor has a doctor. A doctor is more likely than the rest of us to have particular insight into their own health, but I don't think they try to do it all alone. Of course I'm only speaking for myself. If anyone prefers to write all their own tools, more power to them!
    - amarant 6y ago
      Agreed. I also run Linux, because at the end of the day, I don't want to write a new OS when someone else had already done that.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- scaladev 6y ago
  Don't forget there are a couple hundred countries besides US. I make a relatively decent living by our standards, but nowhere near close to $100k/year. $150-250 per year is quite a bit of money for us.
  - arthur_sav 6y ago
    I'm surprised it's not at least $1000/year. Even if you make 30k a year, $200 for access to a variety of tools you rely on to do your job is a no brainer.
  - infinite8s 6y ago
    It should be possible for a small devtools company to price differently based on locale, but I expect the support costs would then dominate any of the lower prices customers.
- arthur_sav 6y ago
  The username makes it even funnier.
  - apple4ever 6y ago
    Only if you don't think about it. I pay more for Apple products because they bring a lot of value. I don't see the value for many developer tools at their price.
- apple4ever 6y ago
  That's a lot of money to me, despite how much I earn. Especially when the options are free.
  - ta988 6y ago
    Sure you can walk instead of having a bike, a car or taking public transport.
    - apple4ever 6y ago
      I think that's a bad example. A car lets me do a lot of things, not just a single thing. I think development tools are overpriced. Under a $100 I can see. Over that is just too much.
bigbillheck 6y ago
$250 (the initial all-you-can-gobble) is a day's wages or less for anybody making more than $62500 (post-tax) per annum, which at least in the US is not a lot at all.
- thequux 6y ago
  That $250 isn't (generally) tax-deductible. At the moment, I'm making ~€80k as a SWE in Belgium (reasonably good pay but not the highest), and my net income is closer to €150/day. At the top of my career, I expect that I could increase that to at most €200/day because taxation is brutal. This is not to say that I don't pay for tools; I subscribe to the full Jetbrains set among other things. It's just that that wasn't as simple of a decision as you present it.
  - searedsteak 6y ago
    Is it not in Belgium? In Germany you can count this as 'Werbungskosten' which you can deduct from your income. Anything you use for your job or for professional development counts as this type of expense. Don't other countries have similar concepts in their tax systems?
  - bigbillheck 6y ago
    Then for someone in your position it'd be a day and a half of post-tax salary (for the first year), which doesn't sound like a lot either.
- ta988 6y ago
  And the price goes down over time, third year is $150...
- apple4ever 6y ago
  $250 is a lot of money for many people, even if they make over $62,000.
smt1 6y ago
Gee, I remember when IDE tools cost $5000, then $650. I thought inflation was supposed to go the other way :-)

MattGaiser 6y ago

I get this for free with an annual UX interview, but yes I would pay for Jetbrains personally.

Stratoscope 6y ago

Same here. It costs me less than fifty cents a day to be able to use all the JetBrains IDEs and developer tools and get all their updates, both for my personal projects and for work. I can only speak for myself, but to me, "no brainer" is an understatement.

hyperpallium2 6y ago

I'm toying with the idea of selling developer tools only as personal licenses that can be used commercially. Like a driver's "license", companies must hire "licensed" developers to drive the software. (also licensed plumbers, electricians, accountants, surgeons etc - though true all are skill/knowledge credentials, not simply purchasable; so include an exam). Companies need to hire and pay more for "licensed" developers. It gives power to developers - and then I don't have to sell to managers or deal with uninterested clerks.

Siira 6y ago
> It gives power to developers It gives power to senior, rich developers, at the cost of newcomers. It's a toxic zero-sum play, which contributes to, e.g., shitty 10x overpriced health-care.