3 ms·

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-lab-theory-robert-redfield-no-evidence/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-lab-theory-robert-redfiel... CBS News, yesterday:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-lab-theory-robert-redfield-no-evidence/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-lab-theory-robert-redfiel... CBS News, yesterday: Kristian G. Andersen, director of the infectious disease genomics, translational research institute at Scripps Research, noted that "We know that the first epidemiologically linked cluster of cases came from the Hunan market and we know the virus was found in environmental samples — including animal cages — at the market," he said. "Any 'lab leak' theory would have to account for that scenario — which it simply can't, without invoking a major conspiracy and cover up by Chinese scientists and authorities."

jdhn 6y ago
Is it possible that the virus got there due to it floating around in the air, and not because it originated in animals?
- MilnerRoute 6y ago
  No. The BSL-4 high-security lab was 7 miles away. https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/04/01/covid-19-bioweapon/ https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/04/01/covid-19-bioweapon/
2-tpg 6y ago
We know that patient 0 was not at the market, and that people at the market got infected. So, perfectly valid scenario: 1. Scientists do controversial Gain-of-function research by collecting viruses from miles away and importing them to Wuhan. 2. Lab leak happens 3. First linked clusters pop up a few miles away in a rather unsanitary market, with plenty of reservoirs and infection possibilities. 4. Virus is found in environmental samples, including animal cages and pets and frozen foods, in Hunan market and else. The only thing indirectly invoking a major conspiracy here, is the possibility: lab leak happens. Or you know, you can account for a scenario, where Chinese authorities covered up a major conspiracy (Don't be afraid! It's only reason over authority!). I thought we were already at the point where this is common sense knowledge. Or else we would know what exactly is going on in those Uyghur concentration camps, but all we can do is estimate the extend of this inhumane conspiracy.
- MilnerRoute 6y ago
  There actually is a bunch of evidence supporting the theory that it emerged from an animal at the market. Here's a recent article from Bloomberg: https://www.bloombergquint.com/onweb/contentious-hunt-for-covid-s-origin-points-to-china-animal-trade https://www.bloombergquint.com/onweb/contentious-hunt-for-co... Scientists tracing the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic believe they’ve identified a possible transmission source: China’s thriving wildlife trade... The most plausible theory, say experts involved in the mission, concerns China’s wildlife trade for food, furs and traditional medicine, a business worth about 520 billion yuan ($80 billion) in 2016. Live animals susceptible to coronavirus infection were present at the Huanan food market in downtown Wuhan, the city where the first major Covid-19 outbreak was detected. It’s possible they acted as conduits for the virus, carrying it from bats -- likely the primary source, says a zoologist who was part of the joint research effort... "The main conclusion from this stage of the work -- and it’s not over yet of course -- is that the exact same pathway by which SARS emerged was alive and well for the emergence of Covid...." Farmed and wild-caught civets, a small, nocturnal mammal consumed in China, were blamed for spreading the SARS virus in a market in the southern province of Guangdong in 2003. Scientists later found the infection originated in horseshoe bats, a natural reservoir of coronaviruses. The two species likely collided in markets where live animals are caged in crowded conditions, potentially allowing the bat-borne virus to adapt and amplify before it spilled over to humans, initially among workers and those handling the animals. Scientists working on the origin hunt say a similar scenario may have played out with Covid-19. A study of the first 99 patients treated at an infectious diseases hospital in Wuhan found half were linked to the Huanan seafood market, which also reportedly sold live animals, some illegally captured in the wild and slaughtered in front of customers.
- MilnerRoute 6y ago
  What's frustrating about this is I feel like it doesn't matter how much evidence there is for the emerging consensus that it emerged from an animal at the market. The counter-argument is still always, "Yes, yes, but what if instead of that maybe it somehow came from a badly-run lab instead?"
  - 2-tpg 6y ago
2-tpg 6y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=MilnerRoute&next=22904972 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=MilnerRoute&next=229... You and yorwba have been at it for a while now https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=yorwba https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=yorwba Very interesting to see the rest of the network. What gave it away is that you are too intelligent to believe the narrative you are pushing.
- dang 6y ago
  You've broken the site guidelines egregiously with this. We ban accounts that do that. Please stick to the rules from now on: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - 2-tpg 6y ago
    You can ban me then (or just let this be my last post). This HN user spend a year blasting the lab leak hypothesis, going so far as to point to Wikipedia's allowed sources, to try to suppress a submitted link here. Claiming the submitted links are from far-right organizations, not even touching the content. They use similar arguments and text on different articles, such as a weird suspicious support and praise for Peter Daszak, or just snip news article quotes as their argument. I deem such behavior enemies of truth-finding and sincere curiosity. The other poster he was doing his one-two narrative building with 11 months ago, is still active (very active now), his latest posts when linking, being in defense of Xiongxian cotton, interspersed with cookie-cutter hacker-linux stuff (because lots of hackers do care about Chinese cotton...). Even if not a troll network, it is acting indistinguishable from it. If HN is a community with a fixed recognizable name, then I am allowed to figure out the history. Did this person wanted to defund the police? Did this person yelled that Bitcoin was a bubble hoax? Did this person spend the better part of a year copy-pasting talking points against a lab leak, which add nothing to the conversation? Know your history, so you don't repeat mistakes in the present. Such as going into debate with this user about animals at meat market being the source, when they are not interested in the truth, just pushing their politicized narrative. I want to be in a community with nay-sayers, rule-breakers, divergent critical thinkers, people who actually debate and make their original points, not copy-paste popular media and shit on bitcoin. This isn't it. The only entropy for me here is from comments already flagged. Yes, I was way out of line with this, no site should stand for it. It was meant to be my last post here. I would keep calling out posters like that as enemies to truth, science, and investigation, since I find this more important than guidelines, or average karma. So, should make my own site or find another community. I won't apologize, but do sincerely thank you for your strong community management, and I hope you will see less of this in the future.

jdhn 6y ago

Is it possible that the virus got there due to it floating around in the air, and not because it originated in animals?

MilnerRoute 6y ago
No. The BSL-4 high-security lab was 7 miles away. https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/04/01/covid-19-bioweapon/ https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/04/01/covid-19-bioweapon/

2-tpg 6y ago

We know that patient 0 was not at the market, and that people at the market got infected. So, perfectly valid scenario: 1. Scientists do controversial Gain-of-function research by collecting viruses from miles away and importing them to Wuhan. 2. Lab leak happens 3. First linked clusters pop up a few miles away in a rather unsanitary market, with plenty of reservoirs and infection possibilities. 4. Virus is found in environmental samples, including animal cages and pets and frozen foods, in Hunan market and else. The only thing indirectly invoking a major conspiracy here, is the possibility: lab leak happens. Or you know, you can account for a scenario, where Chinese authorities covered up a major conspiracy (Don't be afraid! It's only reason over authority!). I thought we were already at the point where this is common sense knowledge. Or else we would know what exactly is going on in those Uyghur concentration camps, but all we can do is estimate the extend of this inhumane conspiracy.

MilnerRoute 6y ago
There actually is a bunch of evidence supporting the theory that it emerged from an animal at the market. Here's a recent article from Bloomberg: https://www.bloombergquint.com/onweb/contentious-hunt-for-covid-s-origin-points-to-china-animal-trade https://www.bloombergquint.com/onweb/contentious-hunt-for-co... Scientists tracing the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic believe they’ve identified a possible transmission source: China’s thriving wildlife trade... The most plausible theory, say experts involved in the mission, concerns China’s wildlife trade for food, furs and traditional medicine, a business worth about 520 billion yuan ($80 billion) in 2016. Live animals susceptible to coronavirus infection were present at the Huanan food market in downtown Wuhan, the city where the first major Covid-19 outbreak was detected. It’s possible they acted as conduits for the virus, carrying it from bats -- likely the primary source, says a zoologist who was part of the joint research effort... "The main conclusion from this stage of the work -- and it’s not over yet of course -- is that the exact same pathway by which SARS emerged was alive and well for the emergence of Covid...." Farmed and wild-caught civets, a small, nocturnal mammal consumed in China, were blamed for spreading the SARS virus in a market in the southern province of Guangdong in 2003. Scientists later found the infection originated in horseshoe bats, a natural reservoir of coronaviruses. The two species likely collided in markets where live animals are caged in crowded conditions, potentially allowing the bat-borne virus to adapt and amplify before it spilled over to humans, initially among workers and those handling the animals. Scientists working on the origin hunt say a similar scenario may have played out with Covid-19. A study of the first 99 patients treated at an infectious diseases hospital in Wuhan found half were linked to the Huanan seafood market, which also reportedly sold live animals, some illegally captured in the wild and slaughtered in front of customers.
MilnerRoute 6y ago
What's frustrating about this is I feel like it doesn't matter how much evidence there is for the emerging consensus that it emerged from an animal at the market. The counter-argument is still always, "Yes, yes, but what if instead of that maybe it somehow came from a badly-run lab instead?"
- 2-tpg 6y ago

2-tpg 6y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=MilnerRoute&next=22904972 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=MilnerRoute&next=229... You and yorwba have been at it for a while now https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=yorwba https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=yorwba Very interesting to see the rest of the network. What gave it away is that you are too intelligent to believe the narrative you are pushing.

dang 6y ago
You've broken the site guidelines egregiously with this. We ban accounts that do that. Please stick to the rules from now on: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- 2-tpg 6y ago
  You can ban me then (or just let this be my last post). This HN user spend a year blasting the lab leak hypothesis, going so far as to point to Wikipedia's allowed sources, to try to suppress a submitted link here. Claiming the submitted links are from far-right organizations, not even touching the content. They use similar arguments and text on different articles, such as a weird suspicious support and praise for Peter Daszak, or just snip news article quotes as their argument. I deem such behavior enemies of truth-finding and sincere curiosity. The other poster he was doing his one-two narrative building with 11 months ago, is still active (very active now), his latest posts when linking, being in defense of Xiongxian cotton, interspersed with cookie-cutter hacker-linux stuff (because lots of hackers do care about Chinese cotton...). Even if not a troll network, it is acting indistinguishable from it. If HN is a community with a fixed recognizable name, then I am allowed to figure out the history. Did this person wanted to defund the police? Did this person yelled that Bitcoin was a bubble hoax? Did this person spend the better part of a year copy-pasting talking points against a lab leak, which add nothing to the conversation? Know your history, so you don't repeat mistakes in the present. Such as going into debate with this user about animals at meat market being the source, when they are not interested in the truth, just pushing their politicized narrative. I want to be in a community with nay-sayers, rule-breakers, divergent critical thinkers, people who actually debate and make their original points, not copy-paste popular media and shit on bitcoin. This isn't it. The only entropy for me here is from comments already flagged. Yes, I was way out of line with this, no site should stand for it. It was meant to be my last post here. I would keep calling out posters like that as enemies to truth, science, and investigation, since I find this more important than guidelines, or average karma. So, should make my own site or find another community. I won't apologize, but do sincerely thank you for your strong community management, and I hope you will see less of this in the future.