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One of my main concerns is that almost all legitimate discussion is now happening in private invite only communities because people are too risk averse to conti

One of my main concerns is that almost all legitimate discussion is now happening in private invite only communities because people are too risk averse to continue to chat on public sites that will be indexed forever in a culture where they can be cancelled for even a slightly uncouth opinion. Almost all of my consumption and contribution on the Internet is now in private communities that are quite strict about invites and the trend among my colleagues is similar. When I was younger I learned so much and established many valuable relationships by having discussions on public services/websites. Many legends in the field were quite accessible on public sites and mailing lists. My life would be much worse if I hadn't had those experiences and it feels like a lot of younger people that don't have connections to the SV bubble are now going to miss out on similar experiences. This isn't to say that we should be tolerant of everything but it definitely feels like we've swung too far in the opposite direction.

remarkEon 6y ago
Not saying I do this, necessarily, but friends of mine who are active in policy circles write for various publications under pseudonyms now for this reason. The development of the idea happens in private group chats, where everyone is using their IRL name, but the publication happens under a pen name. I really don't know if this is a positive change for how policy gets made, but it is happening actively right now.
- spoonjim 6y ago
  Can you link to some examples of policy papers written under pseudonyms?
  - remarkEon 6y ago
    Obviously no? That would defeat the purpose. I understand what you're getting at though. I just made a claim that people in policy circles are writing things under pseudonyms. You want evidence for this (justifiably), but this would require me to essentially out the pen names. Sorry, not going to happen.
    - spoonjim 6y ago
      Oh, so the pseudonyms appear to be real names, and are not known as pseudonyms? Or are they things like “Cicero.” I wasn’t looking for your contacts as much as I am trying to answer “Are pseudonymously written works more bold/risk-taking etc?” What happens if someone Googles the pseudonym? Or tries to contact it? Do they use an anonymous email address or just not allow it?
      - remarkEon 6y ago
        >“Are pseudonymously written works more bold/risk-taking etc?” The answer to this question is yes.
birken 6y ago
Wasn't most "legitimate discussion" already happening in private already? This article is pointing out situations where even in private people might not want to give out candid feedback, which seems like a different concern that what you are saying. I'm a pretty active person online and I genuinely do not understand your concern. If you want to say something controversial online, just do so anonymously like you are doing now. If you want to give somebody candid advice I'm not sure why you'd do that in public anyways.
- skjfdoslifjeifj 6y ago
  My apologies, I should have made clear that my post wasn't directed at the article. > Wasn't most "legitimate discussion" already happening in private already? Probably, but I think there was still much more interesting discussion going on publicly in years past. It's anecdotal but I've definitely seen a huge spike in how many of my colleagues are retreating entirely to private communities and most of them never make public comments anymore. That's disappointing to me because I think there's a lot of value in having these discussions in the open with respected and accomplished names attached. It also gives a level of perceived accessibility that I think is important.
  - kenjackson 6y ago
    “but I think there was still much more interesting discussion going on publicly in years past.” Really? Prior to anonymous Internet comments there were even fewer discussions. I think recent years is when we’ve finally began to understand how people really feel.
    - skjfdoslifjeifj 6y ago
      You are correct. I should have limited my statement to discussions between people using their real identities. I also think this is subjective depending on how much value you place on being able to identify the participants. For example, in language related discussions I think it's extremely valuable to have people like SPJ, Anders Hejlsberg, Andrei Alexandrescu etc. as active AND identifiable participants. When I was in high school, during the very early days of Slashdot, quite a few highly respected developers, professors and authors would comment regularly under their own names. Reading their comments and having discussions with them definitely changed my life and I think it would be sad to see all these discussions move into private spaces or under anonymity due to fear of the mob.

remarkEon 6y ago

Not saying I do this, necessarily, but friends of mine who are active in policy circles write for various publications under pseudonyms now for this reason. The development of the idea happens in private group chats, where everyone is using their IRL name, but the publication happens under a pen name. I really don't know if this is a positive change for how policy gets made, but it is happening actively right now.

spoonjim 6y ago
Can you link to some examples of policy papers written under pseudonyms?
- remarkEon 6y ago
  Obviously no? That would defeat the purpose. I understand what you're getting at though. I just made a claim that people in policy circles are writing things under pseudonyms. You want evidence for this (justifiably), but this would require me to essentially out the pen names. Sorry, not going to happen.
  - spoonjim 6y ago
    Oh, so the pseudonyms appear to be real names, and are not known as pseudonyms? Or are they things like “Cicero.” I wasn’t looking for your contacts as much as I am trying to answer “Are pseudonymously written works more bold/risk-taking etc?” What happens if someone Googles the pseudonym? Or tries to contact it? Do they use an anonymous email address or just not allow it?
    - remarkEon 6y ago
      >“Are pseudonymously written works more bold/risk-taking etc?” The answer to this question is yes.

birken 6y ago

Wasn't most "legitimate discussion" already happening in private already? This article is pointing out situations where even in private people might not want to give out candid feedback, which seems like a different concern that what you are saying. I'm a pretty active person online and I genuinely do not understand your concern. If you want to say something controversial online, just do so anonymously like you are doing now. If you want to give somebody candid advice I'm not sure why you'd do that in public anyways.

skjfdoslifjeifj 6y ago
My apologies, I should have made clear that my post wasn't directed at the article. > Wasn't most "legitimate discussion" already happening in private already? Probably, but I think there was still much more interesting discussion going on publicly in years past. It's anecdotal but I've definitely seen a huge spike in how many of my colleagues are retreating entirely to private communities and most of them never make public comments anymore. That's disappointing to me because I think there's a lot of value in having these discussions in the open with respected and accomplished names attached. It also gives a level of perceived accessibility that I think is important.
- kenjackson 6y ago
  “but I think there was still much more interesting discussion going on publicly in years past.” Really? Prior to anonymous Internet comments there were even fewer discussions. I think recent years is when we’ve finally began to understand how people really feel.
  - skjfdoslifjeifj 6y ago
    You are correct. I should have limited my statement to discussions between people using their real identities. I also think this is subjective depending on how much value you place on being able to identify the participants. For example, in language related discussions I think it's extremely valuable to have people like SPJ, Anders Hejlsberg, Andrei Alexandrescu etc. as active AND identifiable participants. When I was in high school, during the very early days of Slashdot, quite a few highly respected developers, professors and authors would comment regularly under their own names. Reading their comments and having discussions with them definitely changed my life and I think it would be sad to see all these discussions move into private spaces or under anonymity due to fear of the mob.