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Anecdotal but my office is ultra-woke. There are endless internal emails about whatever-week, or veterans-this, or LBGTQ+-that etc etc. People have been hound

Anecdotal but my office is ultra-woke. There are endless internal emails about whatever-week, or veterans-this, or LBGTQ+-that etc etc. People have been hounded out and either quit or been fired for fairly minor "infractions" of the groupthink (...and also some people have rightly been fired for actual inappropriate behaviour). And guess what all this talk about "toxic masculinity" and generally vilifying all men leads to? If you said "chilling effect" then you are bang on. It is a bloody minefield. Keep your head down, never talk about non-work stuff, refuse to provide feedback or do interviews, refuse to help people out unless it is directly your job' responsibility to do so etc and hope you don't get fired. It genuinely feels like I have a target on my back.

marsrover 6y ago
If I ever get fired for not being woke enough, I am going to breathe a sigh of relief. I'm 100% tired of all of it, to the point that I almost want someone to cancel me.
- void_mint 6y ago
  Maybe seek therapy? "I want to be publicly labelled as an abuser" seems like an unhealthy thought pattern. If this is causing you that much grief, you should seriously consider talking to someone. It might make you feel a lot better, and you won't even have to have your life ruined. edit Please explain downvotes? Suggesting a person saying "I want someone to cancel me" seek help is downvote worthy now?
jimbob45 6y ago
The only solution to cancel culture is to cancel those out of your life who would cancel you. I would be doing the same thing if I was in your shoes. On the bright side, this is hopefully a healthy opportunity for us all to find some friends outside of work.
- thereare5lights 6y ago
  I'm usually against cancel culture. Except against those that partake in it. I'll admit I feel a lot of schadenfreude when those people get canceled themselves and they're held to their own standards.
- Darmody 6y ago
  That's like fighting for freedom of speech forbidding those who are against it to speak.
  - jimbob45 6y ago
    The important question today is what we would have done if Joseph McCarthy had been right. If (in some bizarre parallel universe) he was somehow right about Communists doing...Communist things and we all definitely agreed on this, would we have applauded his tactics? The cancel culture crowd today seem to think yes. They look to him as an idol and see his only flaw as his unjust cause. I don’t think I agree. Extrajudiciality should be shunned in all its forms even if it leads to bad people meeting bad ends.
    - hindsightbias 6y ago
      RFK and Nixon thought so and worked on his staff. So in 1968, running against each other, those two probably represented 95% of the electorate.
kumarm 6y ago
Now you know how the other side felt all along :). Seriously, we are now asked to treat everyone with respect and that is a problem? Edit: No I don't mean eye for eye. I am merely pointing out, this is a male dominant industry where women didn't even have a chance for a long time. The moment we face little uneasiness, we are complaining and throwing temper tantrums.
- hkt 6y ago
  OP is perhaps suggesting that a system where nobody feels like they have a target on their back is possible. Such that we don't (as you appear to tacitly admit we do) simply creature a culture that is still toxic, but for different people. So, no, it isn't a problem to respect everyone.
- celticninja 6y ago
  No, that's not the problem. It's that offense is easy to take at anything and companies erring on the side of caution will prefer to get rid so they appear to be doing something. Whether it is right or not doesn't matter by the time the truth is out the actions have been taken.
- sputr 6y ago
  You wrote 2 sentences and still managed to contradict yourself. Either parent and 'other side' have been both victimised (by him now knowing how they felt) or parent isn't a victim but since you claim he is experiancing what 'the other side' did neither were they. Maybe try listening for a change.
  - dang 6y ago
    > Maybe try listening for a change. Please omit personal swipes from your HN posts, no matter how wrong another comment is or you feel it is. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- colechristensen 6y ago
  Every sense of morality transformed into abuse has at least some basis in what would be called real objective good. You cannot simplify the problems of "woke culture" as "asking everyone to treat others with respect", because that is not what is happening on the dark side of "woke" and you can't pretend that the dark side doesn't exist.
colechristensen 6y ago
Document the hostile work environment in a journal, look for new positions, and quit when it becomes too much of a threat to your wellbeing. If you decide to quit or get fired, use your documentation of the environment as a basis for filing for unemployment benefits or if it merits it, higher levels of complaint/compensation. The "progressive" cause is just as capable of doing wrong as the "conservative" cause; there is this general perception that being "woke" is the moral high ground and if you're against the "conservative" people who are jerks then you and your peers do no wrong. In fact it seems like the conservative jerks and the "woke" jerks are doing the exact same thing - abusing groups of peoples and behaviors in order to show off their moral superiority. A bunch of young people in the past generations left the church because they saw church people hating on folks who didn't fit their definition of "good people" and saw that definition distorted into abusing folks that deserved to be who they were. The exact same behaviors are showing up and getting stronger in the "woke" community, just with different targets. I'm still waiting for the popular backlash against the "woke" agenda - probably just the next generation of kids rebelling against their parents' ideals. I have a target on my back too and occasionally am treated like a predator, but I also have the privilege that though it isn't harmless to me, I usually have the ability to get up and exit the situation treating me poorly. This is what everybody should try to cultivate - the freedom to quit a bad situation and not be a slave to a particular job, group of people, life plan, etc. When you can say "I would like to do this but I have other options" then it becomes a whole lot harder to be abused because when bad things happen you can just say goodbye.
efficax 6y ago
Funny I work in a similar workplace and don't find that "all men" are vilified, or that being conscientious about the impact my words and actions have on marginalized people has any negative impact on my behavior. Maybe it's a you problem
- CodeGlitch 6y ago
  It's his "lived experience", so you should respect that. I'm only half joking...
- na85 6y ago
  >Funny I work in a similar workplace and don't find that "all men" are vilified, or that being conscientious about the impact my words and actions have on marginalized people has any negative impact on my behavior. Maybe it's a you problem This is a great example. The Elect tolerate nothing less than full throated support of the cause/outrage du jour, and anyone taking a moderate position is branded a problem, just as you've done here.
  - TLightful 6y ago
    Advice, be cool, understanding ... and maybe you wouldn't be appear to be a d0uche.
    - na85 6y ago
      Can you please be specific about what you read in my comment that makes you feel I'm a "d0uche"?
      - teddyh 6y ago
        I am not ‘TLightful’, but I’m guessing it’s because you used the term “The Elect”, which only certain groups use. It’s one of the shibboleths of these modern times.
        na85 6y ago
TLightful 6y ago
Care to define what those "fairly minor infractions of the groupthink" were? With respect, and I'm not saying this is you, but often I've heard that type of line - and then when you get into the detail, the firing was an obvious correct decision. Edit: lol @ the downvotes, you can k!ss my @ss. Glad to have you here as I guess you were rejected from Parler.
- zepto 6y ago
  Firing is a straw man. Obviously it’s usually justified because there are legal consequences otherwise. The problem is all the other things that can happen that aren’t firing.
- kjjjjjjjjjjjjjj 6y ago
  Given the context is the dogmatic approach to office culture, this comment is super ironic. Of course the firings were a correct decision from your (insane and skewed) perspective.
  - TLightful 6y ago
    >>Given the context is the dogmatic approach to office culture, this comment is super ironic. Of course the firings were a correct decision from your (insane and skewed) perspective. Without the facts of the matter, you're talking out of your h'arse. Either firings are legal or not. They have nothing to do with office culture. Insane and skewed? ... yes, yes you are. Well done for identifying it, it's just your aim is about 180 degrees wrong. I imagine you have that issue frequently in life. Have a nice day :) (you absolute, unmitigated pr!ck, lol)
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - dang 6y ago
      We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
worik 6y ago
Not good. Some of us have felt like that for thirty years. Once apon a time there were a group of people who swaggered through life saying whatever popped into their brains whom ever it offended or belittled. They engaged in metaphorical, but brutal, wrestling matches not just with each other but with any body who crossed their paths. Now life is very hard for them. Should have happened thirty years ago. Has it gone too far? Probably. <sound of a very small violin>
- zepto 6y ago
  Ok - but are you sure the people who are feeling like this now have anything to do with what was happening thirty years ago?
  - worik 6y ago
    Mostly they were not born!
- asjldkfin 6y ago
  My problem with "woke culture" is that it's constantly fighting an imaginary enemy, some abstract concept that's been conjured up. I hazard to say this post is a good example of the problem.
  - Griffinsauce 6y ago
    An enemy is not imaginary if you yourself did not experience it.
    - asjldkfin 6y ago
      That's true, but just because I didn't experience it doesn't mean imaginary enemies isn't a well-worn tactic used in society. The Jews were demonized by Christians in the ye-old days based on imaginary qualities that simply weren't true. So were the Land-lords. So were the "witches" and the "heretics".
randomopining 6y ago
Ew! White man expressing himself! Please don’t express your experiences or opinions on things. If you were one of these _____ , we would love to hear your life experiences or opinions on things. Because you were not born one of these ____, we don’t. Regards, Your Morally Superior GroupThink Social Overlords
- dang 6y ago
  Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar, regardless of how strongly you feel about a topic. Nothing good can come of this—just internet hellfire, which leads to scorched earth, which is all the same, which is uninteresting. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20scorched%20earth&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
whydoineedone 6y ago
why continue to work there, buddy? I actually switched careers out of my position because that's what it was like in 2016.
Causality1 6y ago
I utterly adore that my workplace has a strict ban on using any company resources such as the email system for non-work related business. The one time in eight years someone sent a political email they were formally reprimanded.
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  This is more common than not in traditional enterprises and businesses. It feels like a unique trait of the Silicon Valley bubble (and places testing to emulate it).
BonoboIO 6y ago
I could not see myself working for such a company.

marsrover 6y ago

If I ever get fired for not being woke enough, I am going to breathe a sigh of relief. I'm 100% tired of all of it, to the point that I almost want someone to cancel me.

void_mint 6y ago
Maybe seek therapy? "I want to be publicly labelled as an abuser" seems like an unhealthy thought pattern. If this is causing you that much grief, you should seriously consider talking to someone. It might make you feel a lot better, and you won't even have to have your life ruined. edit Please explain downvotes? Suggesting a person saying "I want someone to cancel me" seek help is downvote worthy now?

jimbob45 6y ago

The only solution to cancel culture is to cancel those out of your life who would cancel you. I would be doing the same thing if I was in your shoes. On the bright side, this is hopefully a healthy opportunity for us all to find some friends outside of work.

thereare5lights 6y ago
I'm usually against cancel culture. Except against those that partake in it. I'll admit I feel a lot of schadenfreude when those people get canceled themselves and they're held to their own standards.
Darmody 6y ago
That's like fighting for freedom of speech forbidding those who are against it to speak.
- jimbob45 6y ago
  The important question today is what we would have done if Joseph McCarthy had been right. If (in some bizarre parallel universe) he was somehow right about Communists doing...Communist things and we all definitely agreed on this, would we have applauded his tactics? The cancel culture crowd today seem to think yes. They look to him as an idol and see his only flaw as his unjust cause. I don’t think I agree. Extrajudiciality should be shunned in all its forms even if it leads to bad people meeting bad ends.
  - hindsightbias 6y ago
    RFK and Nixon thought so and worked on his staff. So in 1968, running against each other, those two probably represented 95% of the electorate.

kumarm 6y ago

Now you know how the other side felt all along :). Seriously, we are now asked to treat everyone with respect and that is a problem? Edit: No I don't mean eye for eye. I am merely pointing out, this is a male dominant industry where women didn't even have a chance for a long time. The moment we face little uneasiness, we are complaining and throwing temper tantrums.

hkt 6y ago
OP is perhaps suggesting that a system where nobody feels like they have a target on their back is possible. Such that we don't (as you appear to tacitly admit we do) simply creature a culture that is still toxic, but for different people. So, no, it isn't a problem to respect everyone.
celticninja 6y ago
No, that's not the problem. It's that offense is easy to take at anything and companies erring on the side of caution will prefer to get rid so they appear to be doing something. Whether it is right or not doesn't matter by the time the truth is out the actions have been taken.
sputr 6y ago
You wrote 2 sentences and still managed to contradict yourself. Either parent and 'other side' have been both victimised (by him now knowing how they felt) or parent isn't a victim but since you claim he is experiancing what 'the other side' did neither were they. Maybe try listening for a change.
- dang 6y ago
  > Maybe try listening for a change. Please omit personal swipes from your HN posts, no matter how wrong another comment is or you feel it is. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
colechristensen 6y ago
Every sense of morality transformed into abuse has at least some basis in what would be called real objective good. You cannot simplify the problems of "woke culture" as "asking everyone to treat others with respect", because that is not what is happening on the dark side of "woke" and you can't pretend that the dark side doesn't exist.

colechristensen 6y ago

Document the hostile work environment in a journal, look for new positions, and quit when it becomes too much of a threat to your wellbeing. If you decide to quit or get fired, use your documentation of the environment as a basis for filing for unemployment benefits or if it merits it, higher levels of complaint/compensation. The "progressive" cause is just as capable of doing wrong as the "conservative" cause; there is this general perception that being "woke" is the moral high ground and if you're against the "conservative" people who are jerks then you and your peers do no wrong. In fact it seems like the conservative jerks and the "woke" jerks are doing the exact same thing - abusing groups of peoples and behaviors in order to show off their moral superiority. A bunch of young people in the past generations left the church because they saw church people hating on folks who didn't fit their definition of "good people" and saw that definition distorted into abusing folks that deserved to be who they were. The exact same behaviors are showing up and getting stronger in the "woke" community, just with different targets. I'm still waiting for the popular backlash against the "woke" agenda - probably just the next generation of kids rebelling against their parents' ideals. I have a target on my back too and occasionally am treated like a predator, but I also have the privilege that though it isn't harmless to me, I usually have the ability to get up and exit the situation treating me poorly. This is what everybody should try to cultivate - the freedom to quit a bad situation and not be a slave to a particular job, group of people, life plan, etc. When you can say "I would like to do this but I have other options" then it becomes a whole lot harder to be abused because when bad things happen you can just say goodbye.

efficax 6y ago

Funny I work in a similar workplace and don't find that "all men" are vilified, or that being conscientious about the impact my words and actions have on marginalized people has any negative impact on my behavior. Maybe it's a you problem

CodeGlitch 6y ago
It's his "lived experience", so you should respect that. I'm only half joking...
na85 6y ago
>Funny I work in a similar workplace and don't find that "all men" are vilified, or that being conscientious about the impact my words and actions have on marginalized people has any negative impact on my behavior. Maybe it's a you problem This is a great example. The Elect tolerate nothing less than full throated support of the cause/outrage du jour, and anyone taking a moderate position is branded a problem, just as you've done here.
- TLightful 6y ago
  Advice, be cool, understanding ... and maybe you wouldn't be appear to be a d0uche.
  - na85 6y ago
    Can you please be specific about what you read in my comment that makes you feel I'm a "d0uche"?
    - teddyh 6y ago
      I am not ‘TLightful’, but I’m guessing it’s because you used the term “The Elect”, which only certain groups use. It’s one of the shibboleths of these modern times.
      - na85 6y ago

TLightful 6y ago

Care to define what those "fairly minor infractions of the groupthink" were? With respect, and I'm not saying this is you, but often I've heard that type of line - and then when you get into the detail, the firing was an obvious correct decision. Edit: lol @ the downvotes, you can k!ss my @ss. Glad to have you here as I guess you were rejected from Parler.

zepto 6y ago
Firing is a straw man. Obviously it’s usually justified because there are legal consequences otherwise. The problem is all the other things that can happen that aren’t firing.
kjjjjjjjjjjjjjj 6y ago
Given the context is the dogmatic approach to office culture, this comment is super ironic. Of course the firings were a correct decision from your (insane and skewed) perspective.
- TLightful 6y ago
  >>Given the context is the dogmatic approach to office culture, this comment is super ironic. Of course the firings were a correct decision from your (insane and skewed) perspective. Without the facts of the matter, you're talking out of your h'arse. Either firings are legal or not. They have nothing to do with office culture. Insane and skewed? ... yes, yes you are. Well done for identifying it, it's just your aim is about 180 degrees wrong. I imagine you have that issue frequently in life. Have a nice day :) (you absolute, unmitigated pr!ck, lol)
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - dang 6y ago
    We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

worik 6y ago

Not good. Some of us have felt like that for thirty years. Once apon a time there were a group of people who swaggered through life saying whatever popped into their brains whom ever it offended or belittled. They engaged in metaphorical, but brutal, wrestling matches not just with each other but with any body who crossed their paths. Now life is very hard for them. Should have happened thirty years ago. Has it gone too far? Probably. <sound of a very small violin>

zepto 6y ago
Ok - but are you sure the people who are feeling like this now have anything to do with what was happening thirty years ago?
- worik 6y ago
  Mostly they were not born!
asjldkfin 6y ago
My problem with "woke culture" is that it's constantly fighting an imaginary enemy, some abstract concept that's been conjured up. I hazard to say this post is a good example of the problem.
- Griffinsauce 6y ago
  An enemy is not imaginary if you yourself did not experience it.
  - asjldkfin 6y ago
    That's true, but just because I didn't experience it doesn't mean imaginary enemies isn't a well-worn tactic used in society. The Jews were demonized by Christians in the ye-old days based on imaginary qualities that simply weren't true. So were the Land-lords. So were the "witches" and the "heretics".

randomopining 6y ago

Ew! White man expressing himself! Please don’t express your experiences or opinions on things. If you were one of these _____ , we would love to hear your life experiences or opinions on things. Because you were not born one of these ____, we don’t. Regards, Your Morally Superior GroupThink Social Overlords

dang 6y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar, regardless of how strongly you feel about a topic. Nothing good can come of this—just internet hellfire, which leads to scorched earth, which is all the same, which is uninteresting. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20scorched%20earth&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

whydoineedone 6y ago

why continue to work there, buddy? I actually switched careers out of my position because that's what it was like in 2016.

Causality1 6y ago

I utterly adore that my workplace has a strict ban on using any company resources such as the email system for non-work related business. The one time in eight years someone sent a political email they were formally reprimanded.

ocdtrekkie 6y ago
This is more common than not in traditional enterprises and businesses. It feels like a unique trait of the Silicon Valley bubble (and places testing to emulate it).

BonoboIO 6y ago

I could not see myself working for such a company.