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The same process takes place with astringent persimmons. Persimmons are even weirder because they have four types: pollination constant non-astringent (PCNA),

The same process takes place with astringent persimmons. Persimmons are even weirder because they have four types: pollination constant non-astringent (PCNA), pollination variant non-astringent (PVNA), pollination constant astringent (PCA), pollination variant astringent (PVA). That means that some (very tasty) types of persimmon can be astringent or sweet when hard depending on whether they were pollinated, which is nearly impossible to tell just by looking at the fruit. The most well known categories of persimmons, at least in the US -- Fuyu types (PCNA) and Hachiya (PCA) -- are not pollination variant.

richk449 6y ago
That explains a lot. I only buy fuyu persimmons now, because when I have tried the other kinds, they have been inedible - very astringent. Do people do anything with the astringent types? Do they get better if I wait?
- barathr 6y ago
  You have to wait until they are extremely soft -- then they'll be very very sweet (and juicy). I tend to only buy and grow non-astringent persimmons because it's a hassle. People also dry them -- there's a whole process for this (one link among many): https://www.umami-insider.com/hoshigaki-japanese-dried-persimmon/ https://www.umami-insider.com/hoshigaki-japanese-dried-persi...
  - Alex3917 6y ago
    What cultivars would you recommend? I planted a szukis, john rick, and mohler this past year. Not sure what else I should be looking into.
    - barathr 6y ago
      Among the less common ones Izu and Mikatani Gosho are good.
    - pvaldes 6y ago
      I would like to know your with those varieties that are almost unknown in Europe. Hatchiya is the standard one in astringent types. 'Rojo brillante' is also very good. Saijo and Chocolate are also very famous but not so easy to find. All named varieties are astringent.
- pvaldes 6y ago
  > Do people do anything with the astringent types? Yes, we do. Both have their own merits, but astringent types have a couple of serious advantages over non astringent, 1) they store much more sugar than the fuju types and 2) are untouched by insects or birds until ripe. Really versatile fruit and very good if you know how to use it. Astringent types can be treated industrially to became the same as non astringent ones. Kaki is at least three totally different fruits in one.
- mc32 6y ago
  All I know is the flatter (beefeater tomato shape) don’t need to ripen (soften before eating), the heart-shaped ones are fussy and you need to let them get soft before eating. I prefer the former type.
jfengel 6y ago
I know of a few persimmon trees along my running route in Maryland -- I'm not sure what kind, but they produce much smaller persimmons than I see in the store. I occasionally taste them throughout fall and early winter. They seem to go from "deeply unpleasant" to "mildly unpleasant" to "I suppose I could make jam out of these if I added a lot of sugar".

richk449 6y ago

That explains a lot. I only buy fuyu persimmons now, because when I have tried the other kinds, they have been inedible - very astringent. Do people do anything with the astringent types? Do they get better if I wait?

barathr 6y ago
You have to wait until they are extremely soft -- then they'll be very very sweet (and juicy). I tend to only buy and grow non-astringent persimmons because it's a hassle. People also dry them -- there's a whole process for this (one link among many): https://www.umami-insider.com/hoshigaki-japanese-dried-persimmon/ https://www.umami-insider.com/hoshigaki-japanese-dried-persi...
- Alex3917 6y ago
  What cultivars would you recommend? I planted a szukis, john rick, and mohler this past year. Not sure what else I should be looking into.
  - barathr 6y ago
    Among the less common ones Izu and Mikatani Gosho are good.
  - pvaldes 6y ago
    I would like to know your with those varieties that are almost unknown in Europe. Hatchiya is the standard one in astringent types. 'Rojo brillante' is also very good. Saijo and Chocolate are also very famous but not so easy to find. All named varieties are astringent.
pvaldes 6y ago
> Do people do anything with the astringent types? Yes, we do. Both have their own merits, but astringent types have a couple of serious advantages over non astringent, 1) they store much more sugar than the fuju types and 2) are untouched by insects or birds until ripe. Really versatile fruit and very good if you know how to use it. Astringent types can be treated industrially to became the same as non astringent ones. Kaki is at least three totally different fruits in one.
mc32 6y ago
All I know is the flatter (beefeater tomato shape) don’t need to ripen (soften before eating), the heart-shaped ones are fussy and you need to let them get soft before eating. I prefer the former type.

jfengel 6y ago

I know of a few persimmon trees along my running route in Maryland -- I'm not sure what kind, but they produce much smaller persimmons than I see in the store. I occasionally taste them throughout fall and early winter. They seem to go from "deeply unpleasant" to "mildly unpleasant" to "I suppose I could make jam out of these if I added a lot of sugar".