5 ms·

I’m going to use this as an opportunity to ask: I tried reading Consider Plebius and couldn’t get into it. Years have gone by since this attempt (so many books

I’m going to use this as an opportunity to ask: I tried reading Consider Plebius and couldn’t get into it. Years have gone by since this attempt (so many books to read, I rarely revisit something that didn’t capture my attention immediately), but a friend recently told me to just skip Plebius and that he guarantees, knowing my taste, I’ll enjoy the rest immensely. Any HN thoughts here on the series would be appreciated!

wmf 6y ago
The Culture series can be read in pretty much any order; staring with The Player of Games might be easier.
GeoAtreides 6y ago
Start with Player of Games, it's better and most people recommend it as a starting point.
- hnick 6y ago
  This was my entry point, suggested by many as you say, and it was a good choice. It can easily stand alone as a story.
ilikeyou 6y ago
Absolutely. I love the Culture series, but Consider Phlebas has always been one of the least enjoyable books. I’d personally start with the excellent Player of Games and go from there. (Also skip Inversions)
- u02sgb 6y ago
  I didn't like Inversions the first time I read it either but re-read all the Culture books, in order, after Banks died and enjoyed that. I think I was expecting it to be very Culture-y and was disappointed it wasn't. On a reread my expectations were different and it was just a very enjoyable story. I'd also suggest avoiding Excession until you've become familiar with the Minds. It's my favourite book, I think, but you lose a lot without having a little context.
blacktriangle 6y ago
Honestly, I'd take it a step further and skip Banks all together. I first read a bunch of Culture books roughly a decade ago, thought I'd give them another read recently, and had lost all interest. Thin plots, boring characters, worlds that are mostly hinted at but poorly developed, and in his later books a deep sense of nihilism that reads more like a depressed teenager than an author finding his voice. Of the books, the two that manage to stand somewhat on their own as decent books are Player of Games, because what geek doesn't like a book about a planet where the government is based around whose best at board games, and Excession since it's the most Mind-heavy book, and frankly the Minds are Banks' most interesting characters.
- scotty79 6y ago
  > worlds that are mostly hinted at but poorly developed This is one of the best qualities of his books. In me those hints trigger my imagination that creates awe inspiring images. I'd hate it if he flooded me with descriptions of everything. Overdescribed worlds like Warhammer 40000 are uninteresting to me. It's like reading a history book, but fake (not that it makes it any worse).
detaro 6y ago
It's one of my favorite series. IMHO the order to read them doesn't matter all that much, and Consider Phlebas probably isn't the easiest to get into it. Maybe start with Player of Games or Look To Windward.
kvgr 6y ago
I liked the first two books, but Use Of Weapons is killing me right now. It has some long descriptive passages skipping back or to the furure? Cant do it...
- Tomte 6y ago
  The book starts at a point in time, and then gives two story lines. One back in time (Roman numerals) and one forward in time (Arabic numerals). Those two are alternating and equal, no one is superior to the other or just a "descriptive passage". Once you understand it, the whole organization becomes very clear and no problem. If you don't know that, you'll struggle. I love UoW, it's my favorite book (ahead of the superb Excession), but I haven't read all of the Culture novels. Consider Phlebas is a terrible beginning (that I also endured), and the much-recommended Player of Games wasn't my cup of tea, either, though it's not bad.
- Sharlin 6y ago
  Use of Weapons is a masterpiece, but (or maybe therefore?) is definitely not an easy read. Like most stories with a nonlinear narrative, its true greatness only becomes apparent on a second – or maybe third – read. But to make it easier to grok, realize that there are two timelines that alternate: one goes forward in ”present time” and drives the main plot; the other goes backwards in time and describes how the protagonist ended up the way he does.
- pierrebai 6y ago
  I didn't like Use of Weapons. I found the plot cliché, the usual super-elitism of SC pushed to the unbearable point (the fact that the main protagonist would be such a unique and uber-warrior / strategist / whatever) and the source of his emotional turmoil over the top.
- kvgr 6y ago
  I wonder thy this god downloaded. I share an opinion about a book.
gpderetta 6y ago
I enjoyed it a lot, but I also like episodic stories. Also it is very interesting that it is a space opera that, instead of focusing in grand scale events and high stakes storylines, it deals with a minor, mostly inconsequential and ultimately futile event.
elihu 6y ago
Huh, I actually think Consider Phlebas is the best I've read so far, but it seems that view is in the minority and my own high opinion is mostly on account of the latter half of the book, once they get to Schar's world. Your friend could be right that you might prefer one of the other books.
- pierrebai 6y ago
  The main problem with Consider Phlebas is that a lot of the book feels like a collection of space adventures. These early part of the book feel less sophisticated than latter novels. Yet by the end it becomes pretty great. It is also one of my favorite Culture novel because the Minds ambiguities are less present and the elitism constantly in displays in other novels are at least justified here by the unique morphing capabilities of the protagonist.
AshamedCaptain 6y ago
Unpopular opinion: I personally had more fun reading the Wikipedia page (and others) detailing the actual background and setting and workings of the Culture than I had reading any of the books. :) Really the world (universe?) of The Culture is very deep and interesting (and the Tolkien comparisons very apt, since I have the same feeling about LoTR). Also I particularly enjoyed Consider Phlebas more than the 'following' book (player of games), so I do not agree about phlebas being "skippable".
scotty79 6y ago
As others say Player of Games is probably easiest to get into. If you like a bit of medieval stuff in your SF you might consider reading Matter. I also very much like Surface Detail.
marvin 6y ago
My favorites are Matter and Surface Detail, in that order. Surface Detail is probably an easier starting point, but any of the non-canonical reading order suggestions will have you confused for a while, due to the simplified descriptions of various concepts. It is about simulated worlds, in-silico sentient minds and military conflict over vehement ethics disagreements. I started with Look to Windward myself, and would probably have started with another if choosing again.
rsynnott 6y ago
Consider Phlebas isn’t one of the better ones, IMO, and it’s probably the least typical of them. Player of Games or Look to Windward would be a better starting point.
cmrdporcupine 6y ago
I really like Consider Phlebas; but it is a sprawling novel which doesn't actually focus that much on the Culture and more on its tortured protagonist. Use of Weapons is similar, a very similar story to CP in fact. (EDIT: but more focused and less sprawling) Look to Windward is a bit slow paced, but shorter than CP, and has a lot more about the Culture, and it has got a more nuanced emotional tone? It's a very well written novel, and the characters are ones you find sympathy with. It's the first Culture novel I read, and it got me into the series. Excession is the weirdest in the series, written a lot from the POV of some ships, in a very weird style meant to sort of capture the inside of their thought processes. But it's good in its own way, if you can get into it.
mbrodersen 6y ago
Start with Player of Games.

wmf 6y ago

The Culture series can be read in pretty much any order; staring with The Player of Games might be easier.

GeoAtreides 6y ago

Start with Player of Games, it's better and most people recommend it as a starting point.

hnick 6y ago
This was my entry point, suggested by many as you say, and it was a good choice. It can easily stand alone as a story.

ilikeyou 6y ago

Absolutely. I love the Culture series, but Consider Phlebas has always been one of the least enjoyable books. I’d personally start with the excellent Player of Games and go from there. (Also skip Inversions)

u02sgb 6y ago
I didn't like Inversions the first time I read it either but re-read all the Culture books, in order, after Banks died and enjoyed that. I think I was expecting it to be very Culture-y and was disappointed it wasn't. On a reread my expectations were different and it was just a very enjoyable story. I'd also suggest avoiding Excession until you've become familiar with the Minds. It's my favourite book, I think, but you lose a lot without having a little context.

blacktriangle 6y ago

Honestly, I'd take it a step further and skip Banks all together. I first read a bunch of Culture books roughly a decade ago, thought I'd give them another read recently, and had lost all interest. Thin plots, boring characters, worlds that are mostly hinted at but poorly developed, and in his later books a deep sense of nihilism that reads more like a depressed teenager than an author finding his voice. Of the books, the two that manage to stand somewhat on their own as decent books are Player of Games, because what geek doesn't like a book about a planet where the government is based around whose best at board games, and Excession since it's the most Mind-heavy book, and frankly the Minds are Banks' most interesting characters.

scotty79 6y ago
> worlds that are mostly hinted at but poorly developed This is one of the best qualities of his books. In me those hints trigger my imagination that creates awe inspiring images. I'd hate it if he flooded me with descriptions of everything. Overdescribed worlds like Warhammer 40000 are uninteresting to me. It's like reading a history book, but fake (not that it makes it any worse).

detaro 6y ago

It's one of my favorite series. IMHO the order to read them doesn't matter all that much, and Consider Phlebas probably isn't the easiest to get into it. Maybe start with Player of Games or Look To Windward.

kvgr 6y ago

I liked the first two books, but Use Of Weapons is killing me right now. It has some long descriptive passages skipping back or to the furure? Cant do it...

Tomte 6y ago
The book starts at a point in time, and then gives two story lines. One back in time (Roman numerals) and one forward in time (Arabic numerals). Those two are alternating and equal, no one is superior to the other or just a "descriptive passage". Once you understand it, the whole organization becomes very clear and no problem. If you don't know that, you'll struggle. I love UoW, it's my favorite book (ahead of the superb Excession), but I haven't read all of the Culture novels. Consider Phlebas is a terrible beginning (that I also endured), and the much-recommended Player of Games wasn't my cup of tea, either, though it's not bad.
Sharlin 6y ago
Use of Weapons is a masterpiece, but (or maybe therefore?) is definitely not an easy read. Like most stories with a nonlinear narrative, its true greatness only becomes apparent on a second – or maybe third – read. But to make it easier to grok, realize that there are two timelines that alternate: one goes forward in ”present time” and drives the main plot; the other goes backwards in time and describes how the protagonist ended up the way he does.
pierrebai 6y ago
I didn't like Use of Weapons. I found the plot cliché, the usual super-elitism of SC pushed to the unbearable point (the fact that the main protagonist would be such a unique and uber-warrior / strategist / whatever) and the source of his emotional turmoil over the top.
kvgr 6y ago
I wonder thy this god downloaded. I share an opinion about a book.

gpderetta 6y ago

I enjoyed it a lot, but I also like episodic stories. Also it is very interesting that it is a space opera that, instead of focusing in grand scale events and high stakes storylines, it deals with a minor, mostly inconsequential and ultimately futile event.

elihu 6y ago

Huh, I actually think Consider Phlebas is the best I've read so far, but it seems that view is in the minority and my own high opinion is mostly on account of the latter half of the book, once they get to Schar's world. Your friend could be right that you might prefer one of the other books.

pierrebai 6y ago
The main problem with Consider Phlebas is that a lot of the book feels like a collection of space adventures. These early part of the book feel less sophisticated than latter novels. Yet by the end it becomes pretty great. It is also one of my favorite Culture novel because the Minds ambiguities are less present and the elitism constantly in displays in other novels are at least justified here by the unique morphing capabilities of the protagonist.

AshamedCaptain 6y ago

Unpopular opinion: I personally had more fun reading the Wikipedia page (and others) detailing the actual background and setting and workings of the Culture than I had reading any of the books. :) Really the world (universe?) of The Culture is very deep and interesting (and the Tolkien comparisons very apt, since I have the same feeling about LoTR). Also I particularly enjoyed Consider Phlebas more than the 'following' book (player of games), so I do not agree about phlebas being "skippable".

scotty79 6y ago

As others say Player of Games is probably easiest to get into. If you like a bit of medieval stuff in your SF you might consider reading Matter. I also very much like Surface Detail.

marvin 6y ago

My favorites are Matter and Surface Detail, in that order. Surface Detail is probably an easier starting point, but any of the non-canonical reading order suggestions will have you confused for a while, due to the simplified descriptions of various concepts. It is about simulated worlds, in-silico sentient minds and military conflict over vehement ethics disagreements. I started with Look to Windward myself, and would probably have started with another if choosing again.

rsynnott 6y ago

Consider Phlebas isn’t one of the better ones, IMO, and it’s probably the least typical of them. Player of Games or Look to Windward would be a better starting point.

cmrdporcupine 6y ago

I really like Consider Phlebas; but it is a sprawling novel which doesn't actually focus that much on the Culture and more on its tortured protagonist. Use of Weapons is similar, a very similar story to CP in fact. (EDIT: but more focused and less sprawling) Look to Windward is a bit slow paced, but shorter than CP, and has a lot more about the Culture, and it has got a more nuanced emotional tone? It's a very well written novel, and the characters are ones you find sympathy with. It's the first Culture novel I read, and it got me into the series. Excession is the weirdest in the series, written a lot from the POV of some ships, in a very weird style meant to sort of capture the inside of their thought processes. But it's good in its own way, if you can get into it.

mbrodersen 6y ago

Start with Player of Games.