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You think people are perpetuating a "narrative" about how it sucks to be a cog why exactly? You honestly think we are secret socialists arguing against Amazon?

You think people are perpetuating a "narrative" about how it sucks to be a cog why exactly? You honestly think we are secret socialists arguing against Amazon? I love my cushy tech job where I get paid ridiculously for what doesn't feel like an actual job. I just happen to know people on those bottom rungs and how much it sucks. Put yourself in the shoes of each layer of a bureaucratic organization like Amazon. Most will be normal rational actors that are self interested. Most will want to make more money and advance their career. For those on the very bottom of society, working a warehouse job will mean a few more dollars more than minimum wage and it will be one of the best opportunities available to them. They will not enjoy it and it will be hard work but they will do it because making 25k a year at McDonald's will not put enough food on their families tables. Then you have those slightly better off that are lucky enough to get a chance at an amazing ~20-25 dollars an hour as a driver. It will be hard work but again, they will grit their teeth and bare it because there is the height of what they can attain in life and it will put food on the table and a few gifts under the tree at Christmas. Then you have the managers just above that first layer. They themselves are micromanaged and are glorified baby sitters whose job it is to get a whole bunch of unhappy people to be productive. They themselves want to provide better for their families and they will seek to improve their career. They are NOT solely evaluated on how quickly they can shuffle boxes around, else they would give raises to motivate their employees. They instead have to bend over backwards to produce results while keeping costs low. They have very few options to do well and are forced to do things that will make those on the bottom unhappy. They will do things like cut hours off employees so that they are no longer full time so that they don't have to pay health insurance. They will be lax on safety because it's worth the risk to them. The ones good at squeezing the bottom rung will get promoted and so on. It is a darwinian survival of the fittest with rational actors on every rung. Should we tell those on the bottom tough shit, you should be thankful you're not working at McDonald's? Or do we all say you know what that incentive structure seems bad, that Amazon company has billions of dollars of cash laying around, it doesn't seem fair that our fellow citizens have to trudge through life miserably and that we should enact some laws to make their lives less bad? Why is a little bit softer version of capitalism so bad? We live in a shared society where those on the lower rung have it hard. We are all on the same team here and there is plenty of prosperity to share around. Meet and talk to people who are on that lower rung. Try to get to know them and understand their viewpoint, the struggles that they go through and what their lives look like.

kodah 6y ago
First, looks like you judged that I'm economically conservative and I am not. My point was that the author isn't talking about the poor, they're talking about a problem with technocracy that seeks to define you by metrics. As a SRE you should be keenly aware of the shortcomings of such approaches. The story you've told here is not far from the journey I had as a software engineer coming from the military in the Midwest and South, and even at similar hourly rates. If you look at my other comment, we likely have the same views, but I'm not focused on how it's projected on different classes. I'm focused on the practice itself. > Should we tell those on the bottom tough shit, you should be thankful you're not working at McDonald's? Or do we all say you know what that incentive structure seems bad, that Amazon company has billions of dollars of cash laying around, it doesn't seem fair that our fellow citizens have to trudge through life miserably and that we should enact some laws to make their lives less bad? Why is a little bit softer version of capitalism so bad? We live in a shared society where those on the lower rung have it hard. We are all on the same team here and there is plenty of prosperity to share around. Meet and talk to people who are on that lower rung. Try to get to know them and understand their viewpoint, the struggles that they go through and what their lives look like. This is rich. You assumed I've always had money. You assumed my political allegiances. You assumed I've never existed on a "lower rung". That's all narrative, so in a way, you made my point for me. You've now distracted from the debate entirely and have earned a second person who doesn't want to hear what you have to say.
- bostonsre 6y ago
  I am arguing against the use of the "It's that narrative" phrase that is said like someone is playing a trump card and for some reason just makes other arguments null and void. Sorry if I misinterpreted your response, I assumed you thought similarly to others that have posted using that phrase and I tried to engage in a discussion to push for you to explain your reasoning and consider alternatives. I don't assume anything about you except that you are more likely than not like me and many others on this forum, extremely fortunate. I too have experienced that bottom rung and I'm tired of the zuckerberg like hubris that some have in our community where people act like they are disrupting the world for better in cases where they disrupt incumbents by scaling exploitation of that power rung. I try to push back on it when I can to show different perspectives. To me, the dismissal of the plight of Amazon workers and the lower class is one and the same. Amazon is new to the game, but they approach everything with ruthless cunning.

kodah 6y ago

First, looks like you judged that I'm economically conservative and I am not. My point was that the author isn't talking about the poor, they're talking about a problem with technocracy that seeks to define you by metrics. As a SRE you should be keenly aware of the shortcomings of such approaches. The story you've told here is not far from the journey I had as a software engineer coming from the military in the Midwest and South, and even at similar hourly rates. If you look at my other comment, we likely have the same views, but I'm not focused on how it's projected on different classes. I'm focused on the practice itself. > Should we tell those on the bottom tough shit, you should be thankful you're not working at McDonald's? Or do we all say you know what that incentive structure seems bad, that Amazon company has billions of dollars of cash laying around, it doesn't seem fair that our fellow citizens have to trudge through life miserably and that we should enact some laws to make their lives less bad? Why is a little bit softer version of capitalism so bad? We live in a shared society where those on the lower rung have it hard. We are all on the same team here and there is plenty of prosperity to share around. Meet and talk to people who are on that lower rung. Try to get to know them and understand their viewpoint, the struggles that they go through and what their lives look like. This is rich. You assumed I've always had money. You assumed my political allegiances. You assumed I've never existed on a "lower rung". That's all narrative, so in a way, you made my point for me. You've now distracted from the debate entirely and have earned a second person who doesn't want to hear what you have to say.

bostonsre 6y ago
I am arguing against the use of the "It's that narrative" phrase that is said like someone is playing a trump card and for some reason just makes other arguments null and void. Sorry if I misinterpreted your response, I assumed you thought similarly to others that have posted using that phrase and I tried to engage in a discussion to push for you to explain your reasoning and consider alternatives. I don't assume anything about you except that you are more likely than not like me and many others on this forum, extremely fortunate. I too have experienced that bottom rung and I'm tired of the zuckerberg like hubris that some have in our community where people act like they are disrupting the world for better in cases where they disrupt incumbents by scaling exploitation of that power rung. I try to push back on it when I can to show different perspectives. To me, the dismissal of the plight of Amazon workers and the lower class is one and the same. Amazon is new to the game, but they approach everything with ruthless cunning.