4 ms·

I'm guessing here, but I think dandanua wants a world where people would listen to smart people like him to get their "true" information so that they don't have

I'm guessing here, but I think dandanua wants a world where people would listen to smart people like him to get their "true" information so that they don't have to waste their time and energy to refute "total nonsense". He'll be your savior.

jariel 6y ago
More likely he wants a world where people act with integrity and don't spout lies in their narrow self interest, and that we probably need systems of integrity - from top to bottom (academia, journalism, families, churches, governance) in order to achieve that.
- fredfoobar 6y ago
  Unfortunately, that is not scalable. Even within academia, there is a lot of proof of work going on, it is a very natural phenomena if you look deeply enough. Consider some area of academia, you have to come up with a hypothesis, test it, collect data, analyze it and publish; your peers will review it and verify/refute it, there is no "top down" acceptance of someones word on face-value (if it is, then it is not science).
  - jariel 6y ago
    No, you're misunderstanding what the term 'integrity' means. The notion goes far beyond narrow views of 'scientific reasoning'. Integrity, far from 'unscalable', is an essential factor in the functioning of civil society and probably the #1 predictor of a successful ongoing civilization. The difference between a rich and poor country is sometimes 'natural resources' but more often than not highly organized social order based around institutions and systems with integrity. In everything from 'Sushi Chef' to 'Parenting' to 'Early Childhood Education' to 'DMV' to 'Drug Regulation' and 'Accounting Principles'.
    - fredfoobar 6y ago
      Sure, locally, those principles work, because you see and interact with the people often. But on the internet, it doesn't work, that's where I was going with "unscalable", I'm not claiming that you have to ditch "integrity" for something else, most of the large scale human endeavors can't just rely on integrity (on that large scale).
- dandanua 6y ago
  Yes, I'm mathematician and I love the idea that everyone can have an independent and consistent sense of truth. But the real world is far from this idealistic picture, unfortunately.
  - MrMan 6y ago
    I am a mathematician and am fascinated that we built a global civilization through coordinated effort at a huge scale and our civilization transcends the abilities of any one person. Truth is shared.
  - jariel 6y ago
    Math has nothing to do with Integrity, it's just a tool. Yes, it would be nice to have an objective truth but we don't need that to know that bribing a or shooting a cop is 'bad'.

jariel 6y ago

More likely he wants a world where people act with integrity and don't spout lies in their narrow self interest, and that we probably need systems of integrity - from top to bottom (academia, journalism, families, churches, governance) in order to achieve that.

fredfoobar 6y ago
Unfortunately, that is not scalable. Even within academia, there is a lot of proof of work going on, it is a very natural phenomena if you look deeply enough. Consider some area of academia, you have to come up with a hypothesis, test it, collect data, analyze it and publish; your peers will review it and verify/refute it, there is no "top down" acceptance of someones word on face-value (if it is, then it is not science).
- jariel 6y ago
  No, you're misunderstanding what the term 'integrity' means. The notion goes far beyond narrow views of 'scientific reasoning'. Integrity, far from 'unscalable', is an essential factor in the functioning of civil society and probably the #1 predictor of a successful ongoing civilization. The difference between a rich and poor country is sometimes 'natural resources' but more often than not highly organized social order based around institutions and systems with integrity. In everything from 'Sushi Chef' to 'Parenting' to 'Early Childhood Education' to 'DMV' to 'Drug Regulation' and 'Accounting Principles'.
  - fredfoobar 6y ago
    Sure, locally, those principles work, because you see and interact with the people often. But on the internet, it doesn't work, that's where I was going with "unscalable", I'm not claiming that you have to ditch "integrity" for something else, most of the large scale human endeavors can't just rely on integrity (on that large scale).
dandanua 6y ago
Yes, I'm mathematician and I love the idea that everyone can have an independent and consistent sense of truth. But the real world is far from this idealistic picture, unfortunately.
- MrMan 6y ago
  I am a mathematician and am fascinated that we built a global civilization through coordinated effort at a huge scale and our civilization transcends the abilities of any one person. Truth is shared.
- jariel 6y ago
  Math has nothing to do with Integrity, it's just a tool. Yes, it would be nice to have an objective truth but we don't need that to know that bribing a or shooting a cop is 'bad'.