5 ms·

Because building a cloud city isn't not end of the problem (and not a small one in itself). Sustaining a cloud city is very difficult. Terraforming Mars is bein

by omk 6y ago

Because building a cloud city isn't not end of the problem (and not a small one in itself). Sustaining a cloud city is very difficult. Terraforming Mars is being considered for the fact that it could be a near permanent solution.

wolfram74 6y ago
"permanent" how? The fact that it has ended up a dead rock implies that that's its steady state. You make mars habitable, it'll probably require a perpetual gardening effort to keep it that way.
- cgriswald 6y ago
  It would be effectively permanent. The sun would strip the atmosphere over a period of time on the order of a hundred million years. If we could terraform it in the first place maintaining it would be trivial.
- nobodyandproud 6y ago
  https://astrobiology.nasa.gov/news/how-to-give-mars-an-atmosphere-maybe/#:~:text=An%20artificial%20magnetosphere%20of%20sufficient%20size%20generated%20at,%28or%20320%20Mars%20radii%29%20away%20from%20the%20planet https://astrobiology.nasa.gov/news/how-to-give-mars-an-atmos....
  - wolfram74 6y ago
    I've talked with Dr. Green about the parasol idea, we still need to do a stability analysis since L1 is unstable, how much effort will it take to keep the dipole in place given the solar wind can fluctuate by an order of magnitude in either direction of the average. It's a fun problem.
    - nobodyandproud 6y ago
      I wonder if having an adjustable center of mass would solve this problem. A mass ejection method would have to be maintained too often, but CoM adjustments can largely be automated (at least in principle).
      - wolfram74 6y ago
        The simulation I want to do involves manipulating the dipole strength, since it's deflecting solar wind, there's momentum exchange, if you fluctuate how much area you're blocking out you could get more or less drag as necessary.
graderjs 6y ago
If you're going to Mars you may as well live underground to avoid the asteroids, dust and radiation. What if Venus already has sentient life? Either pre technosignatures or too sophisticated to advertise their presence to the tribe of nuclear monkeys across the pond. We can't just go waltzing in there and "terraform" something that isn't ours. We'd had to work it out first with whoever's there. On the cloud city sustenance point isn't there ample mining to be had? Like Lando
- cgriswald 6y ago
  There’s nothing to mine. The atmosphere is mostly carbon dioxide with a little nitrogen. Everything else is in insufficient quantities to make it worthwhile probably ever. Cloud City worked because they mined a magical gas called tibanna that generated no magnetic field, no radiation, was denser than air, and dissipated heat so well there was no turbulence.

by omk 6y ago

wolfram74 6y ago

"permanent" how? The fact that it has ended up a dead rock implies that that's its steady state. You make mars habitable, it'll probably require a perpetual gardening effort to keep it that way.

cgriswald 6y ago
It would be effectively permanent. The sun would strip the atmosphere over a period of time on the order of a hundred million years. If we could terraform it in the first place maintaining it would be trivial.
nobodyandproud 6y ago
https://astrobiology.nasa.gov/news/how-to-give-mars-an-atmosphere-maybe/#:~:text=An%20artificial%20magnetosphere%20of%20sufficient%20size%20generated%20at,%28or%20320%20Mars%20radii%29%20away%20from%20the%20planet https://astrobiology.nasa.gov/news/how-to-give-mars-an-atmos....
- wolfram74 6y ago
  I've talked with Dr. Green about the parasol idea, we still need to do a stability analysis since L1 is unstable, how much effort will it take to keep the dipole in place given the solar wind can fluctuate by an order of magnitude in either direction of the average. It's a fun problem.
  - nobodyandproud 6y ago
    I wonder if having an adjustable center of mass would solve this problem. A mass ejection method would have to be maintained too often, but CoM adjustments can largely be automated (at least in principle).
    - wolfram74 6y ago
      The simulation I want to do involves manipulating the dipole strength, since it's deflecting solar wind, there's momentum exchange, if you fluctuate how much area you're blocking out you could get more or less drag as necessary.

graderjs 6y ago

If you're going to Mars you may as well live underground to avoid the asteroids, dust and radiation. What if Venus already has sentient life? Either pre technosignatures or too sophisticated to advertise their presence to the tribe of nuclear monkeys across the pond. We can't just go waltzing in there and "terraform" something that isn't ours. We'd had to work it out first with whoever's there. On the cloud city sustenance point isn't there ample mining to be had? Like Lando

cgriswald 6y ago
There’s nothing to mine. The atmosphere is mostly carbon dioxide with a little nitrogen. Everything else is in insufficient quantities to make it worthwhile probably ever. Cloud City worked because they mined a magical gas called tibanna that generated no magnetic field, no radiation, was denser than air, and dissipated heat so well there was no turbulence.