5 ms·

Have you read the document [1] they cite as evidence that Stallman is transphobic? This is what it actually says: > Please think about how to treat other parti

Have you read the document [1] they cite as evidence that Stallman is transphobic? This is what it actually says: > Please think about how to treat other participants with respect, especially when you disagree with them. For instance, call them by the names they use, and honor their preferences about their gender identity. > Honoring people's preferences about gender identity includes not referring to them in ways that conflict with that identity. For instance, not to use pronouns for them that conflict with it. There are several ways to avoid that; one way is to use gender-neutral pronouns, since they don't conflict with any possible gender identity. That apparently makes Stallman a transphobe. [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20210325014959/https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210325014959/https://www.gnu.o...

smt88 6y ago
I have read that. Before yesterday, it was all I had read. Have you read the article I linked? It includes many repulsive statements that have nothing to do with trans issues. There are many instances where Stallman defended pedophilia, pedophiles, and child molestation, usually claiming that all of these things are fine if the child appears to consent. He also criticizes people who raise children with Down's syndrome and suggests that a child with Down's syndrome is a "pet". There are lots of people in this world with a loved one with Down's syndrome or with a history of being abused as a child. How could those people work with him? Hell, I wouldn't even want him around my children.
- meribold 6y ago
  I agree with you that Stallman's proclivity toward making tactless and contentious statements at the worst possible times on topics that have nothing to do with Free Software make him a poor spokesperson for the FSF. I haven't yet made up my mind on whether they should bar him from being a board member. Yet, I find it extremely questionable that the authors of <https://rms-open-letter.github.io https://rms-open-letter.github.io> decided to throw in an accusation of transphobia with no apparent basis and for no apparent reason. It's a serious accusation and enough reason for me not to sign this letter. I'm not signing the support letter [1] either. I feel no need to hop on either of these bandwagons. For what it's worth, Stallman's latest statement on pedophilia seems to be this: > Many years ago I posted that I could not see anything wrong about sex between an adult and a child, if the child accepted it. > Through personal conversations in recent years, I've learned to understand how sex with a child can harm per psychologically. This changed my mind about the matter: I think adults should not do that. I am grateful for the conversations that enabled me to understand why. I can forgive the previous statements given that RMS has never done anything remotely approximating acting them out, that they've all been made quite long ago (I believe), and that RMS likely has some form of Asperger's. [1]: https://rms-support-letter.github.io/ https://rms-support-letter.github.io/
  - krapp 6y ago
    >Yet, I find it extremely questionable that the authors of <https://rms-open-letter.github.io https://rms-open-letter.github.io> decided to throw in an accusation of transphobia with no apparent basis and for no apparent reason. They clearly explain the basis (Stallman's beliefs about using pronouns.) You may disagree about their reasoning, but it's disingenuous to act as if they "threw it in for no apparent reason."
    - meribold 6y ago
      I got carried away there, but at the very least they don't explain why [1] is transphobic and are generally setting the bar for transphobia quite low. There are even transgender persons that came out in support of Stallman. I find several of the personal accounts criticizing Stallman's conduct to be compelling evidence against him, and I think those accounts can stand on their own without throwing in transphobia. [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20210325014959/https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210325014959/https://www.gnu.o...
  - meribold 6y ago
    > I haven't yet made up my mind on whether they should bar him from being a board member. On second though, there's simply no reason for me to have an opinion on this at all, and the same probably goes for a lot of the people signing either of the open letters. There's even less reason for all the public condemnations that are being published by various corporations, because corporations have no moral authority.
- Udik 6y ago
  > He also criticizes people who raise children with Down's syndrome No, he criticises people who decide to give birth to children with Down's syndrome, when they have the option of terminating the pregnancy. And while every living human being deserves to be treated with the same dignity, wilfully deciding to bring to existence a human being with a terrible genetic handicap is simply cruel.

smt88 6y ago

I have read that. Before yesterday, it was all I had read. Have you read the article I linked? It includes many repulsive statements that have nothing to do with trans issues. There are many instances where Stallman defended pedophilia, pedophiles, and child molestation, usually claiming that all of these things are fine if the child appears to consent. He also criticizes people who raise children with Down's syndrome and suggests that a child with Down's syndrome is a "pet". There are lots of people in this world with a loved one with Down's syndrome or with a history of being abused as a child. How could those people work with him? Hell, I wouldn't even want him around my children.

meribold 6y ago
I agree with you that Stallman's proclivity toward making tactless and contentious statements at the worst possible times on topics that have nothing to do with Free Software make him a poor spokesperson for the FSF. I haven't yet made up my mind on whether they should bar him from being a board member. Yet, I find it extremely questionable that the authors of <https://rms-open-letter.github.io https://rms-open-letter.github.io> decided to throw in an accusation of transphobia with no apparent basis and for no apparent reason. It's a serious accusation and enough reason for me not to sign this letter. I'm not signing the support letter [1] either. I feel no need to hop on either of these bandwagons. For what it's worth, Stallman's latest statement on pedophilia seems to be this: > Many years ago I posted that I could not see anything wrong about sex between an adult and a child, if the child accepted it. > Through personal conversations in recent years, I've learned to understand how sex with a child can harm per psychologically. This changed my mind about the matter: I think adults should not do that. I am grateful for the conversations that enabled me to understand why. I can forgive the previous statements given that RMS has never done anything remotely approximating acting them out, that they've all been made quite long ago (I believe), and that RMS likely has some form of Asperger's. [1]: https://rms-support-letter.github.io/ https://rms-support-letter.github.io/
- krapp 6y ago
  >Yet, I find it extremely questionable that the authors of <https://rms-open-letter.github.io https://rms-open-letter.github.io> decided to throw in an accusation of transphobia with no apparent basis and for no apparent reason. They clearly explain the basis (Stallman's beliefs about using pronouns.) You may disagree about their reasoning, but it's disingenuous to act as if they "threw it in for no apparent reason."
  - meribold 6y ago
    I got carried away there, but at the very least they don't explain why [1] is transphobic and are generally setting the bar for transphobia quite low. There are even transgender persons that came out in support of Stallman. I find several of the personal accounts criticizing Stallman's conduct to be compelling evidence against him, and I think those accounts can stand on their own without throwing in transphobia. [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20210325014959/https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/kind-communication.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210325014959/https://www.gnu.o...
- meribold 6y ago
  > I haven't yet made up my mind on whether they should bar him from being a board member. On second though, there's simply no reason for me to have an opinion on this at all, and the same probably goes for a lot of the people signing either of the open letters. There's even less reason for all the public condemnations that are being published by various corporations, because corporations have no moral authority.
Udik 6y ago
> He also criticizes people who raise children with Down's syndrome No, he criticises people who decide to give birth to children with Down's syndrome, when they have the option of terminating the pregnancy. And while every living human being deserves to be treated with the same dignity, wilfully deciding to bring to existence a human being with a terrible genetic handicap is simply cruel.