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Do the drivers have to work extremely long shifts or do they have to work multiple jobs so that fatigue becomes an issue? In that case the camera system is prob

Do the drivers have to work extremely long shifts or do they have to work multiple jobs so that fatigue becomes an issue? In that case the camera system is probably not the right solution ...

tomhoward 6y ago
Driver fatigue is an issue for freight companies of all sizes, everywhere, and use of amphetamines to stay awake has been a frequent practice among many drivers for a long time. This is a freight industry issue, not an Amazon issue.
- mathieubordere 6y ago
  They sure have the size and the means to make an impact though.
  - tomhoward 6y ago
    Most places have statutory or industry-standard requirements on shift length limits and minimum rest periods for driving or anything else that carries fatigue-related safety risks. Is there any evidence that Amazon puts pressure on drivers to break these limits? I haven't heard of this being the case. But neither Amazon nor any other freight/delivery company can control its drivers' entire lives. No matter how much it pays, it can't stop some workers working multiple jobs - due to having severe debts or other personal motivations to work more than they should.
    - EarlKing 6y ago
      Yes and no. Being tired on-shift is generally only an issue for drivers with 10-hour shifts and a long commute. A lot of DSPs only service 8-hour routes partly for this reason (the other reason being, obviously, lack of desire to pay overtime). Amazon Logistics used to look the other way when their drivers ran over the alloted time for their route because on-time delivery was deemed the more important variable for them. At some point I guess someone looked at how much they were spending on overtime and freaked out because that practice ended real quick. I could see someone being tired if they were covering extra shifts, though, which may be a problem in some DSPs that have more routes than drivers. This happens when too many people call off and/or the DSP doesn't reserve enough drivers in the schedule that day to cover call-offs. On a long enough timeline that will definitely lead to exhaustion in drivers. That said, that problem isn't solved by AI. That problem is solved by placing realistic weekly limits on how much drivers can work and penalizing DSPs that fail to budget enough drivers for call-offs and/or who fail to terminate drivers that habitually fail to show. This porkoscope is unnecessary.
- bobmaxup 6y ago
  Are you citing this? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-drug-truckdrivers/drug-use-high-among-commercial-truck-drivers-study-idUSBRE99O0T520131025 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-drug-truckdrivers/drug-us... Which uses this as a source: https://oem.bmj.com/content/71/1/71.short?g=w_oem_ahead_tab https://oem.bmj.com/content/71/1/71.short?g=w_oem_ahead_tab https://sci-hub.do/10.1136/oemed-2013-101452 https://sci-hub.do/10.1136/oemed-2013-101452
  - tomhoward 6y ago
    I'm just going on media commentary and folklore I've heard since as early as I was old enough to pay attention to such topics in the early 90s. But that study rings true. From what I understand about the industry here in Australia, it's not always just a case of "poor working conditions" (unless poor working conditions includes merely being a truck driver); many long-haul truck drivers are self-employed business operators, and are motivated by competitive pressures and incentives to make as much money as possible for themselves, so it's not always just a case of being treated poorly by evil bosses.
- bobmaxup 6y ago
  > This is a freight industry issue, not an Amazon issue. This review I linked here says: Individual characteristics were mainly associated with alcohol consumption while poor working conditions were mostly associated with amphetamine intake So, I don't think that narrative necessarily lines up with available evidence.
  - tomhoward 6y ago
    How does your quote or anything else in the study contradict my statement?

Do the drivers have to work extremely long shifts or do they have to work multiple jobs so that fatigue becomes an issue? In that case the camera system is probably not the right solution ...

tomhoward 6y ago

Driver fatigue is an issue for freight companies of all sizes, everywhere, and use of amphetamines to stay awake has been a frequent practice among many drivers for a long time. This is a freight industry issue, not an Amazon issue.

mathieubordere 6y ago
They sure have the size and the means to make an impact though.
- tomhoward 6y ago
  Most places have statutory or industry-standard requirements on shift length limits and minimum rest periods for driving or anything else that carries fatigue-related safety risks. Is there any evidence that Amazon puts pressure on drivers to break these limits? I haven't heard of this being the case. But neither Amazon nor any other freight/delivery company can control its drivers' entire lives. No matter how much it pays, it can't stop some workers working multiple jobs - due to having severe debts or other personal motivations to work more than they should.
  - EarlKing 6y ago
    Yes and no. Being tired on-shift is generally only an issue for drivers with 10-hour shifts and a long commute. A lot of DSPs only service 8-hour routes partly for this reason (the other reason being, obviously, lack of desire to pay overtime). Amazon Logistics used to look the other way when their drivers ran over the alloted time for their route because on-time delivery was deemed the more important variable for them. At some point I guess someone looked at how much they were spending on overtime and freaked out because that practice ended real quick. I could see someone being tired if they were covering extra shifts, though, which may be a problem in some DSPs that have more routes than drivers. This happens when too many people call off and/or the DSP doesn't reserve enough drivers in the schedule that day to cover call-offs. On a long enough timeline that will definitely lead to exhaustion in drivers. That said, that problem isn't solved by AI. That problem is solved by placing realistic weekly limits on how much drivers can work and penalizing DSPs that fail to budget enough drivers for call-offs and/or who fail to terminate drivers that habitually fail to show. This porkoscope is unnecessary.
bobmaxup 6y ago
Are you citing this? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-drug-truckdrivers/drug-use-high-among-commercial-truck-drivers-study-idUSBRE99O0T520131025 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-drug-truckdrivers/drug-us... Which uses this as a source: https://oem.bmj.com/content/71/1/71.short?g=w_oem_ahead_tab https://oem.bmj.com/content/71/1/71.short?g=w_oem_ahead_tab https://sci-hub.do/10.1136/oemed-2013-101452 https://sci-hub.do/10.1136/oemed-2013-101452
- tomhoward 6y ago
  I'm just going on media commentary and folklore I've heard since as early as I was old enough to pay attention to such topics in the early 90s. But that study rings true. From what I understand about the industry here in Australia, it's not always just a case of "poor working conditions" (unless poor working conditions includes merely being a truck driver); many long-haul truck drivers are self-employed business operators, and are motivated by competitive pressures and incentives to make as much money as possible for themselves, so it's not always just a case of being treated poorly by evil bosses.
bobmaxup 6y ago
> This is a freight industry issue, not an Amazon issue. This review I linked here says: Individual characteristics were mainly associated with alcohol consumption while poor working conditions were mostly associated with amphetamine intake So, I don't think that narrative necessarily lines up with available evidence.
- tomhoward 6y ago
  How does your quote or anything else in the study contradict my statement?