4 ms·

Ancient genomes trace the origin and decline of the Scythians

31 points by dnetesn 6y ago

Mediterraneo10 6y ago
This part here is potentially misleading: > Without a written language or direct sources, the language or languages they spoke ... remain unclear. This is not quite the case. It is the mainstream consensus – and has been for many, many decades – that the Scythians spoke Iranian languages ancestral to Sarmatian and Alanic. See the article on the Scythian language [0] in the Encyclopedia Iranica, the standard reference work for this field. This finding is based on onomastics (Scythian names in Greek sources), as well as loanwords into the Uralic languages spoken just north of the steppes. What is unclear are dialectal divisions within Scythian, not the general affiliation of the language. Random Turkish nationalists on the internet sometimes say that the Scythians spoke a Turkic language, as there have been some crackpot publications claiming this. However, with regard to the millennia BCE this is not taken seriously among historical linguists. [0] https://iranicaonline.org/articles/scythian-language https://iranicaonline.org/articles/scythian-language
brightball 6y ago
The Scythians are fascinating. I read some history that makes a good case that they are the lost Tribe of Dan from early Israel, as well as the basis for most Norse mythology. EDIT: Source is this reprint from 1880 by Colonel J.C. Gawler. He even goes so far as phonetic analysis of the languages used, references and makes an extremely compelling case in my opinion. I started researching the Tribe of Dan a couple of years back after realizing some parts of Greek mythology sounded a lot like references that Jewish history predated by 1,000 years. Specifically the Rod/Staff of Asclepius (a serpent on a staff for healing) sounded a lot like the poison healing bronze snake on a pole that Moses created in Numbers 21:9, which was then destroyed 800 years later in 2 Kings 18:4 because it had become an idol. Dan was the seafaring, superstitious merchant tribe and that traded across the Mediterranean. There are a lot of notes that trace the origin of the Hercules legend to Samson, who I believe was from the Tribe of Dan as well. It's really interesting stuff. https://www.amazon.com/Dan-Colonel-J-C-Gawler/dp/B002YBHRIQ/ https://www.amazon.com/Dan-Colonel-J-C-Gawler/dp/B002YBHRIQ/
- mstade 6y ago
  Interesting! Do you perhaps have any sources to share?
  - brightball 6y ago
    Added to the parent.
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  Everyone else, please note that everything the OP talks about is not taken seriously among scholars. The cited 19th-century book is prescientific (to word it charitably) and its use of linguistic data is completely unsound – the author simply points to words that coincidentally look similar, but you can do that with any languages even if they are completely unrelated. Generally mainstream history does not engage in tying a "lost tribe of Israel" to other peoples across Eurasia; this is very much the province of cranks and esotericists.
  - brightball 6y ago
    The phonetic analysis amounts to 2-3 pages of the entire pamphlet. There’s plenty of other interesting information in there.
  - brightball 6y ago
    I am curious though...why wouldn’t historians trace Jewish roots like any other? It seems an odd stance to assume that would be reserved for “cranks”.
    - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
      My understanding is that nothing in the Old Testament before about the time of David is considered historical.
      - brightball 6y ago
kvetching 6y ago
For those interested. This is a fascinating documentary on the Scythians. https://odysee.com/@ashalogos:92/conspiracy-our-subverted-history-part-2:e https://odysee.com/@ashalogos:92/conspiracy-our-subverted-hi...
- FentanylFloyd 6y ago
  interesting!
8bitsrule 6y ago
The rise of the Scythians et.al. at about/just after the time of the 'Late Bronze-Age collapse' and the 'Sea People' makes for a tantalizing Gordian knot in history.

31 points by dnetesn 6y ago

This part here is potentially misleading: > Without a written language or direct sources, the language or languages they spoke ... remain unclear. This is not quite the case. It is the mainstream consensus – and has been for many, many decades – that the Scythians spoke Iranian languages ancestral to Sarmatian and Alanic. See the article on the Scythian language [0] in the Encyclopedia Iranica, the standard reference work for this field. This finding is based on onomastics (Scythian names in Greek sources), as well as loanwords into the Uralic languages spoken just north of the steppes. What is unclear are dialectal divisions within Scythian, not the general affiliation of the language. Random Turkish nationalists on the internet sometimes say that the Scythians spoke a Turkic language, as there have been some crackpot publications claiming this. However, with regard to the millennia BCE this is not taken seriously among historical linguists. [0] https://iranicaonline.org/articles/scythian-language https://iranicaonline.org/articles/scythian-language

brightball 6y ago

The Scythians are fascinating. I read some history that makes a good case that they are the lost Tribe of Dan from early Israel, as well as the basis for most Norse mythology. EDIT: Source is this reprint from 1880 by Colonel J.C. Gawler. He even goes so far as phonetic analysis of the languages used, references and makes an extremely compelling case in my opinion. I started researching the Tribe of Dan a couple of years back after realizing some parts of Greek mythology sounded a lot like references that Jewish history predated by 1,000 years. Specifically the Rod/Staff of Asclepius (a serpent on a staff for healing) sounded a lot like the poison healing bronze snake on a pole that Moses created in Numbers 21:9, which was then destroyed 800 years later in 2 Kings 18:4 because it had become an idol. Dan was the seafaring, superstitious merchant tribe and that traded across the Mediterranean. There are a lot of notes that trace the origin of the Hercules legend to Samson, who I believe was from the Tribe of Dan as well. It's really interesting stuff. https://www.amazon.com/Dan-Colonel-J-C-Gawler/dp/B002YBHRIQ/ https://www.amazon.com/Dan-Colonel-J-C-Gawler/dp/B002YBHRIQ/

mstade 6y ago
Interesting! Do you perhaps have any sources to share?
- brightball 6y ago
  Added to the parent.
Mediterraneo10 6y ago
Everyone else, please note that everything the OP talks about is not taken seriously among scholars. The cited 19th-century book is prescientific (to word it charitably) and its use of linguistic data is completely unsound – the author simply points to words that coincidentally look similar, but you can do that with any languages even if they are completely unrelated. Generally mainstream history does not engage in tying a "lost tribe of Israel" to other peoples across Eurasia; this is very much the province of cranks and esotericists.
- brightball 6y ago
  The phonetic analysis amounts to 2-3 pages of the entire pamphlet. There’s plenty of other interesting information in there.
- brightball 6y ago
  I am curious though...why wouldn’t historians trace Jewish roots like any other? It seems an odd stance to assume that would be reserved for “cranks”.
  - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
    My understanding is that nothing in the Old Testament before about the time of David is considered historical.
    - brightball 6y ago

kvetching 6y ago

For those interested. This is a fascinating documentary on the Scythians. https://odysee.com/@ashalogos:92/conspiracy-our-subverted-history-part-2:e https://odysee.com/@ashalogos:92/conspiracy-our-subverted-hi...

FentanylFloyd 6y ago
interesting!

8bitsrule 6y ago

The rise of the Scythians et.al. at about/just after the time of the 'Late Bronze-Age collapse' and the 'Sea People' makes for a tantalizing Gordian knot in history.