4 ms·

What's the thinking on the limitations? Is this just supposed to make the users think they are part of an elite bunch? Are the employers supposed to think tha

What's the thinking on the limitations? Is this just supposed to make the users think they are part of an elite bunch? Are the employers supposed to think that somehow selects only elite hackers?

verroq 15y ago
Obviously to benefit the early adopters. /sarcasm
jgrahamc 15y ago
The biggest problem with job boards is... recruiters. The idea here is that members in good-standing of the HN community are unlikely to be recruiters and thus can be trusted to freely post jobs to the board. If it was open to anyone then it would be flooded with crap immediately.
- wccrawford 15y ago
  Soo... Instead of employers or recruiters posting jobs, employees (specifically hackers) would post the jobs on behalf of their companies?
  - jgrahamc 15y ago
    Yes, but also employers. There are plenty of employers here (e.g. me) who are looking to hire people.
- robinwarren 15y ago
  Incase anyone reading this isn't convinced that recruiters really are the biggest problem with jobs boards you could check out Tobin Harris' write up of his experiences here http://wip.engineroomapps.com/post/3927805265/hiring-without-agencies-lessons-learned-part-1 http://wip.engineroomapps.com/post/3927805265/hiring-without... For my part, recently I was in conversation with a friend who'd advertised a role themselves. They were getting calls from recruiters saying unless they took their candidates through them they would actively contact those candidates and tell them not to apply. They said they would tell the candidates that they'd already put them forward and not to bother applying. Jobs Boards without recruiters can I think benefit candidates and employers. The only people who wouldn't benefit would be the recruiters
  - danohuiginn 15y ago
    We need a recruiter rating site -- some kind of effort to gather reviews of recruiters, name and shame the bad ones, and give an edge to the few who are genuinely adding value. I find it hard to believe that every recruiter is an arsehole, but it must be difficult for the good ones to differentiate themselves from the bad. http://ratemyrecruiter.com/ http://ratemyrecruiter.com/ exists, but seems to have no useful content. Is there anything similar out there somewhere?
  - klous 15y ago
    One of the points of Tobin's writeup is the rampant copying/reposting of job descriptions by unscrupulous staffing firms. Had a related idea a while back, not sure of enforceability of copyright laws: 0) Charge for service that: 1) Takes a job description that is 'creative' enough or unique 2) registers copyright 3) includes verified link that denotes the posting is locked and unauthorized reproduction will be pursued with threat of copyright infringement lawsuit 4) Profit? Not sure if this is a real enough pain for employers to be a standalone product. Maybe an add-on to existing job boards as a differentiator.
- Peroni 15y ago
  cough
ColinWright 15y ago
Can I just say that you've raised a genuine and valid question, and it's nice to have seen the answer, but your phrasing of the question makes it sound as if you're being really quite snarky about it. Is that the way you feel? Or have I read you wrongly? Thx.
- wccrawford 15y ago
  I'm an abrupt person and things come out bluntly sometimes. I haven't made up my mind if it's a good or bad idea, I'm just trying to figure out the reasoning behind it.
  - ColinWright 15y ago
    I'm an abrupt person and things come out bluntly sometimes. It came out as more than abrupt - it came out as positively agressive. At least to me it did. I just wanted to make sure you were aware of that, and chose either to "be yourself" or to try to be less, well, abrupt. Being honest and diplomatic can be hard work, but personally I've found it rewarding.
    - AlexC04 15y ago
      He said it, but I was thinking the same. Why exclusive? Up until very recently I was at a company that was going through the hiring process, and the people tasked with administering the entrance exams were positively dripping with disrespect for all applicants that came through the doors. They joked about hazing them and returned from virtually all sessions with words like "moron", "idiot" and "numbnuts" on their lips. Prases like "how could he ever think he was good enough to work here... or anywhere?" weren't uncommon. Regardless of any other aspects of an interviewee's performance on a series of arbitrary test questions (which we all know often don't measure what the administrators think they measuring), all interviewees deserve respect. I'm not saying the original poster had this in mind in any way, but bad attitude in hiring is pervasive among developers. I'll admit my reaction on reading it was probably a bit knee-jerk. When I see the hints of "we only hire the best" in my head I translate that into silly semi subtle hazing rituals that ignore the person and rely on arbitrary measures rather than examining the quality of the person themselves. Think why PG always says 'we invest more in the people than the product'. Anyways, no harm done. An HN community JobBoard is (IMO) a pretty good idea. I don't think the YC one is really worth looking at, but one that serves the wider community might be good.

What's the thinking on the limitations? Is this just supposed to make the users think they are part of an elite bunch? Are the employers supposed to think that somehow selects only elite hackers?

verroq 15y ago

Obviously to benefit the early adopters. /sarcasm

jgrahamc 15y ago

The biggest problem with job boards is... recruiters. The idea here is that members in good-standing of the HN community are unlikely to be recruiters and thus can be trusted to freely post jobs to the board. If it was open to anyone then it would be flooded with crap immediately.

wccrawford 15y ago
Soo... Instead of employers or recruiters posting jobs, employees (specifically hackers) would post the jobs on behalf of their companies?
- jgrahamc 15y ago
  Yes, but also employers. There are plenty of employers here (e.g. me) who are looking to hire people.
robinwarren 15y ago
Incase anyone reading this isn't convinced that recruiters really are the biggest problem with jobs boards you could check out Tobin Harris' write up of his experiences here http://wip.engineroomapps.com/post/3927805265/hiring-without-agencies-lessons-learned-part-1 http://wip.engineroomapps.com/post/3927805265/hiring-without... For my part, recently I was in conversation with a friend who'd advertised a role themselves. They were getting calls from recruiters saying unless they took their candidates through them they would actively contact those candidates and tell them not to apply. They said they would tell the candidates that they'd already put them forward and not to bother applying. Jobs Boards without recruiters can I think benefit candidates and employers. The only people who wouldn't benefit would be the recruiters
- danohuiginn 15y ago
  We need a recruiter rating site -- some kind of effort to gather reviews of recruiters, name and shame the bad ones, and give an edge to the few who are genuinely adding value. I find it hard to believe that every recruiter is an arsehole, but it must be difficult for the good ones to differentiate themselves from the bad. http://ratemyrecruiter.com/ http://ratemyrecruiter.com/ exists, but seems to have no useful content. Is there anything similar out there somewhere?
- klous 15y ago
  One of the points of Tobin's writeup is the rampant copying/reposting of job descriptions by unscrupulous staffing firms. Had a related idea a while back, not sure of enforceability of copyright laws: 0) Charge for service that: 1) Takes a job description that is 'creative' enough or unique 2) registers copyright 3) includes verified link that denotes the posting is locked and unauthorized reproduction will be pursued with threat of copyright infringement lawsuit 4) Profit? Not sure if this is a real enough pain for employers to be a standalone product. Maybe an add-on to existing job boards as a differentiator.
Peroni 15y ago
cough

ColinWright 15y ago

Can I just say that you've raised a genuine and valid question, and it's nice to have seen the answer, but your phrasing of the question makes it sound as if you're being really quite snarky about it. Is that the way you feel? Or have I read you wrongly? Thx.

wccrawford 15y ago
I'm an abrupt person and things come out bluntly sometimes. I haven't made up my mind if it's a good or bad idea, I'm just trying to figure out the reasoning behind it.
- ColinWright 15y ago
  I'm an abrupt person and things come out bluntly sometimes. It came out as more than abrupt - it came out as positively agressive. At least to me it did. I just wanted to make sure you were aware of that, and chose either to "be yourself" or to try to be less, well, abrupt. Being honest and diplomatic can be hard work, but personally I've found it rewarding.
  - AlexC04 15y ago
    He said it, but I was thinking the same. Why exclusive? Up until very recently I was at a company that was going through the hiring process, and the people tasked with administering the entrance exams were positively dripping with disrespect for all applicants that came through the doors. They joked about hazing them and returned from virtually all sessions with words like "moron", "idiot" and "numbnuts" on their lips. Prases like "how could he ever think he was good enough to work here... or anywhere?" weren't uncommon. Regardless of any other aspects of an interviewee's performance on a series of arbitrary test questions (which we all know often don't measure what the administrators think they measuring), all interviewees deserve respect. I'm not saying the original poster had this in mind in any way, but bad attitude in hiring is pervasive among developers. I'll admit my reaction on reading it was probably a bit knee-jerk. When I see the hints of "we only hire the best" in my head I translate that into silly semi subtle hazing rituals that ignore the person and rely on arbitrary measures rather than examining the quality of the person themselves. Think why PG always says 'we invest more in the people than the product'. Anyways, no harm done. An HN community JobBoard is (IMO) a pretty good idea. I don't think the YC one is really worth looking at, but one that serves the wider community might be good.