4 ms·

It worked with French Indochina, and it arguably still works with South Korea. All it takes is years of military occupation.

thaumasiotes 6y ago
If it's slipping in Taiwan, it's not going to last in South Korea either.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  Taiwan has never considered the US more important than China because it considers itself China. I don't really get what you are saying here though. I don't buy that US control over Taiwan is slipping, but even claiming that suggests your original point about Vietnam is wrong.
  - thaumasiotes 6y ago
    > Taiwan has never considered the US more important than China because it claims it is China. This is just equivocating. I can use "Taiwan" and "China" to refer to different states regardless of whether Taiwan sometimes uses analogous terms to refer to the same thing. Not only do I know what I mean, I know that you know what I mean. And yes, Taiwan is moving in the direction of closer ties to China.
    - boomboomsubban 6y ago
      >Not only do I know what I mean, I know that you know what I mean. Yes, which is why I also addressed your post without making use of that. >And yes, Taiwan is moving in the direction of closer ties to China. The US is currently increasing it's military budget to "prevent Chinese invasion of Taiwan" so I don't really agree with that. Even disagreeing there means they cared more about the US than China for the past sixty years.
      - thaumasiotes 6y ago
        > Even disagreeing there means they cared more about the US than China for the past sixty years. Yeah, I don't dispute that. I would say they care more now, too. But they're shifting. And Taiwan is the absolute best case for a regional power looking somewhere other than China.
        boomboomsubban 6y ago
        I don't understand how you can say both that and >Vietnam can have its own opinion on anything. But it will never, under any circumstances, consider America's opinion to be more important than China's.
        thaumasiotes 6y ago
        OK, fair enough. If Vietnam and China were in a hot war, and Vietnam sought and received American help, Vietnam would likely give more weight to America than to China. I don't think this is likely enough to bother considering, but it's technically possible. Cessation of active hostilities would see attitudes swinging back the other way, even against a background of passive hostilities, as we see in Taiwan.

thaumasiotes 6y ago

If it's slipping in Taiwan, it's not going to last in South Korea either.

boomboomsubban 6y ago
Taiwan has never considered the US more important than China because it considers itself China. I don't really get what you are saying here though. I don't buy that US control over Taiwan is slipping, but even claiming that suggests your original point about Vietnam is wrong.
- thaumasiotes 6y ago
  > Taiwan has never considered the US more important than China because it claims it is China. This is just equivocating. I can use "Taiwan" and "China" to refer to different states regardless of whether Taiwan sometimes uses analogous terms to refer to the same thing. Not only do I know what I mean, I know that you know what I mean. And yes, Taiwan is moving in the direction of closer ties to China.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    >Not only do I know what I mean, I know that you know what I mean. Yes, which is why I also addressed your post without making use of that. >And yes, Taiwan is moving in the direction of closer ties to China. The US is currently increasing it's military budget to "prevent Chinese invasion of Taiwan" so I don't really agree with that. Even disagreeing there means they cared more about the US than China for the past sixty years.
    - thaumasiotes 6y ago
      > Even disagreeing there means they cared more about the US than China for the past sixty years. Yeah, I don't dispute that. I would say they care more now, too. But they're shifting. And Taiwan is the absolute best case for a regional power looking somewhere other than China.
      - boomboomsubban 6y ago
        I don't understand how you can say both that and >Vietnam can have its own opinion on anything. But it will never, under any circumstances, consider America's opinion to be more important than China's.
        thaumasiotes 6y ago
        OK, fair enough. If Vietnam and China were in a hot war, and Vietnam sought and received American help, Vietnam would likely give more weight to America than to China. I don't think this is likely enough to bother considering, but it's technically possible. Cessation of active hostilities would see attitudes swinging back the other way, even against a background of passive hostilities, as we see in Taiwan.