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Blaming Bolsonaro alone is like blaming the scarecrow for the problems in the farm. Brazil is a very complex society that suffered for 3 decades with systemic c

Blaming Bolsonaro alone is like blaming the scarecrow for the problems in the farm. Brazil is a very complex society that suffered for 3 decades with systemic corruption, poor education and a very problematic public health system. Ask any low-middle class brazilian -- me -- what he thinks about public ICUs and the answer will be: "There is no such thing". Brazil is not a developed country doing bad in covid because of its president, rather, it is a poor developing country struggling to survive covid in spite of any president.

mrkramer 6y ago
Public opinion is that US handled pandemic bad but US is the most developed country in the world. There is no real public health system in US because health system is largely based on robust private health care sector. It seems like China handled the best this pandemic so we all should ask them how they did it. We should send our health experts to China so they can learn something.
- rodolphoarruda 6y ago
  I don't think there is much room for the public opinion or the press to really inform the rest of the world about what's going on in China. We as outsiders make our opinion out of sheer inference when talking about China and the pandemic.
- lokedhs 6y ago
  This is an honest question: by what standard is the US "the most developed country in the world"? The US indeed number one in several categories, but how do you define "development" such that the US is on top?
  - mrkramer 6y ago
    Ever heard of GDP?
    - deadbunny 6y ago
      Using GDP as your metric would put China as the 2nd most developed country in the world.
      - mrkramer 6y ago
        What is your metric? Tell me about it.
        rodolphoarruda 6y ago
        HDI is widely regarded as the best metric for nation development.
        mrkramer 6y ago
        So Norway is the most developed country in the world? http://hdr.undp.org/en/content/latest-human-development-index-ranking http://hdr.undp.org/en/content/latest-human-development-inde... I doubt it.
        rodolphoarruda 6y ago
        Don't ask me. DYOR.
        mrkramer 6y ago
        I did my research and all information points me to US being the most developed country in the world. For example this information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States
        deadbunny 6y ago
        Clicking on "developed country" in your link takes you to [1] which doesn't seem to backup your claims in any of the listed metrics. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developed_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developed_country
marcodiego 6y ago
> Ask any low-middle class brazilian -- me -- what he thinks about public ICUs and the answer will be: "There is no such thing". This is simply not true. I spent 2019's vacation in Florianopolis where it is very common for people to have relatives in the US. I asked some of them "What do you do when you get sick?" and unanimous answer was: "We come back to brazil". Brazil's public health has been continually improving since early 2000's and had a world-class respected vaccination program, generic medicines and free treatment for HIV/AIDS and other diseases. Bolsonaro's encouraging crowding, ineffective medication, downplaying the disease, the pandemic and looking for vaccines too late (even discouraging it) combined with his supporters who argued that the pandemic was a fraud, are surely to blame for a part of such a high number of deaths.
- rodolphoarruda 6y ago
  I live in Brazil as a grown adult for 30 years. I can tell you that the public health system in Brazil, specially in regards to intensive care, is a public calamity. Not just now, but for the last 30 years.
lucas_h 6y ago
You're not seeing the big picture. Our national healthcare system is completely ready to face a pandemic like that. Of course it is poorly funded nowadays, but we've vaccinated 80 million people in 3 months in the past. We have professionals, we have the infrastructure, we just needed strong measures and a federal plan to deal with COVID-19. The reason that did not happen was because of Bolsonaro. He chose to not only ignore the problem, but encourage people to live their lives normally. He didn't buy the Pfizer vaccines when we needed to. Hell, he went on television to say Covid-19 was just a "little flu". He fired the health minister 3 times IN A PANDEMIC. He's the one to blame for this situation.
- rodolphoarruda 6y ago
  All my family members who relied on the public health system are now gone. The only one survivor is my rich uncle -- no kidding -- who could afford Sírio Libanês ICU for 40 days. I don't think the middle class can afford that. The majority of the 300k dead were treated in the public system.
- diomedes 6y ago
  > Our national healthcare system is completely ready to face a pandemic like that I lost a younger brother to that national healthcare system 10 years ago. Maybe this might be the case for the more developed regions (like the south & southeast), go to the north/northeast and you'll see the abyss.

mrkramer 6y ago

Public opinion is that US handled pandemic bad but US is the most developed country in the world. There is no real public health system in US because health system is largely based on robust private health care sector. It seems like China handled the best this pandemic so we all should ask them how they did it. We should send our health experts to China so they can learn something.

rodolphoarruda 6y ago
I don't think there is much room for the public opinion or the press to really inform the rest of the world about what's going on in China. We as outsiders make our opinion out of sheer inference when talking about China and the pandemic.
lokedhs 6y ago
This is an honest question: by what standard is the US "the most developed country in the world"? The US indeed number one in several categories, but how do you define "development" such that the US is on top?
- mrkramer 6y ago
  Ever heard of GDP?
  - deadbunny 6y ago
    Using GDP as your metric would put China as the 2nd most developed country in the world.
    - mrkramer 6y ago
      What is your metric? Tell me about it.
      - rodolphoarruda 6y ago
        HDI is widely regarded as the best metric for nation development.
        mrkramer 6y ago
        So Norway is the most developed country in the world? http://hdr.undp.org/en/content/latest-human-development-index-ranking http://hdr.undp.org/en/content/latest-human-development-inde... I doubt it.
        rodolphoarruda 6y ago
        Don't ask me. DYOR.
        mrkramer 6y ago
        I did my research and all information points me to US being the most developed country in the world. For example this information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States
        deadbunny 6y ago
        Clicking on "developed country" in your link takes you to [1] which doesn't seem to backup your claims in any of the listed metrics. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developed_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developed_country

marcodiego 6y ago

> Ask any low-middle class brazilian -- me -- what he thinks about public ICUs and the answer will be: "There is no such thing". This is simply not true. I spent 2019's vacation in Florianopolis where it is very common for people to have relatives in the US. I asked some of them "What do you do when you get sick?" and unanimous answer was: "We come back to brazil". Brazil's public health has been continually improving since early 2000's and had a world-class respected vaccination program, generic medicines and free treatment for HIV/AIDS and other diseases. Bolsonaro's encouraging crowding, ineffective medication, downplaying the disease, the pandemic and looking for vaccines too late (even discouraging it) combined with his supporters who argued that the pandemic was a fraud, are surely to blame for a part of such a high number of deaths.

rodolphoarruda 6y ago
I live in Brazil as a grown adult for 30 years. I can tell you that the public health system in Brazil, specially in regards to intensive care, is a public calamity. Not just now, but for the last 30 years.

lucas_h 6y ago

You're not seeing the big picture. Our national healthcare system is completely ready to face a pandemic like that. Of course it is poorly funded nowadays, but we've vaccinated 80 million people in 3 months in the past. We have professionals, we have the infrastructure, we just needed strong measures and a federal plan to deal with COVID-19. The reason that did not happen was because of Bolsonaro. He chose to not only ignore the problem, but encourage people to live their lives normally. He didn't buy the Pfizer vaccines when we needed to. Hell, he went on television to say Covid-19 was just a "little flu". He fired the health minister 3 times IN A PANDEMIC. He's the one to blame for this situation.

rodolphoarruda 6y ago
All my family members who relied on the public health system are now gone. The only one survivor is my rich uncle -- no kidding -- who could afford Sírio Libanês ICU for 40 days. I don't think the middle class can afford that. The majority of the 300k dead were treated in the public system.
diomedes 6y ago
> Our national healthcare system is completely ready to face a pandemic like that I lost a younger brother to that national healthcare system 10 years ago. Maybe this might be the case for the more developed regions (like the south & southeast), go to the north/northeast and you'll see the abyss.