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Brazil’s mismanagement of Covid-19 threatens the world
- jacob2484 6y agoHow about we talk about the actual elephant in the room? China na and its denial of anything serious going on + not sharing information early on which could have prevented a majority of deaths.
- deanCommie 6y agoBecause It's not the actual elephant in the room. In any operational outage, you focus mitigation, then prevention. We are still in the midst of a global pandemic, and things can still get worse before they get better. Nothing China did or didn't do or lied or didn't lie about a year ago helps deal with OTHER authoritarian governments TODAY contributing to hundreds of thousands of other deaths and potential resurgence with P1.
- Gibbon1 6y agoI think it's instructive watching people try and use their default problem solving technique to solve the problem A LOT of people appear to solve problems via blame. As in if we can just get people to agree that the Chinese people did something BAD then the problem is fixed. People that work that way are really married to it. And very resistant to rethinking things. Full disclosure, as an old crusty engineer when I see a small problem that looks like it could become a big intractable one, I reach for the biggest hammer I can get my fingers around.
- lucas_h 6y agoChina has provided help for dozens of countries, vaccines, health resources, and they managed to control the virus when the West did not care. Remember when the virus arrived in Italy? China was already under lockdown.
- moralsupply 6y agoSweden doesn't "manage" Covid-19 according to the expectations of whoever wrote this article (no lockdowns, no masks, no "social distancing" rules, etc.). Is Sweden "threatening the world" as well? Or is this the usual political narrative the left-wing press uses to bash right-wing politicians?
- arez 6y agoit's not, everyone can see that the current situation in brazil is far worse then in sweden. Sweden didn't had 200m people the last time I checked
- giacaglia 6y agoYet, São Paulo, the worst state in Brazil in covid cases and hospitalizations, has the hardest lockdown
- tamcap 6y agoLockdown depends on two core factors. Social contract (compliance) and enforcement. SP is currently lacking both.
- giacaglia 6y agoIt is not. I was there two weeks ago Your argument is so bad. If that is the case, then alcohol prohibition was successful only if people complied to it. The same with the war on drugs
- Sporktacular 6y agoSweden isn't likely big enough to produce mutations. But sure, The Economist is left wing now. Almost the definition of whataboutism.
- bauerd 6y agoMutations are a matter of chance
- xchaotic 6y agoWe’re screwed until covid becomes endemic like flu is now, where vaccines are optional. Brazil just accelerates the process.
- bluedevil2k 6y agoSo we should believe your ramblings over experienced epidemiologists who say differently?
- argvargc 6y agoBut which ones? The following experienced epidemiologists agree with the GP, and apparently represent a much larger group of medical scientists who do also: Dr. Martin Kulldorff, professor of medicine at Harvard University, a biostatistician, and epidemiologist with expertise in detecting and monitoring infectious disease outbreaks and vaccine safety evaluations. Dr. Sunetra Gupta, professor at Oxford University, an epidemiologist with expertise in immunology, vaccine development, and mathematical modeling of infectious diseases. Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, professor at Stanford University Medical School, a physician, epidemiologist, health economist, and public health policy expert focusing on infectious diseases and vulnerable populations.
- endisneigh 6y agoCan’t read entire article due to paywall, but the title and preview are hard to disagree with. Brazil is a huge country and any large country having an outbreak is obviously bad for the world. This much is clearly self evident from the initial outbreak.
- phkahler 6y agoOK. How does one country not handling a pandemic threaten the world? It's certainly bad for the people there, but how is it bad for the rest of us? It's a pandemic, it's not like failing to contain the initial outbreak.
- jmacd 6y agoBreeding ground for variants. Much more likely to happen in such a high infection population. Then they spread to the world.
- krona 6y agoIf the globe reached herd immunity as fast as possible then there wouldn't be enough time for any variant to become established. I'm not saying this would be a good idea, but Brazil is unlikely to be able to adequately vaccinate its population in the next year. This should be a consideration, as it was in March 2020 in several European countries before they adopted the chinese strategy.
- pjc50 6y agoReminder that herd immunity is a term only applicable to vaccines; what you mean is most of the population getting the disease and consequences. Please provide your estimate of how many deaths before "immunity" is reached.
- krona 6y agoReminder that herd immunity is a term only applicable to vaccines Herd immunity is applicable to immunity and susceptibility in a population. https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/52/7/911/299077 https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/52/7/911/299077
- eecc 6y agoOk, Economist. So where’s the Coup? Usually it follows the moment when certain establishments determine that a government is no longer desirable, or convenient. In this case it’ll never be too early
- modularform123 6y agoYet it is the South African variant which is much more dangerous and resistant to vaccines. The South African government is left-wing and has embraced reparations so you won’t hear about how they mismanaged Covid.
- caiob 6y agoSo much racism here based on political opinions. Jeez, it really shows people here are living in a bubble in SF.
- grecy 6y agoThis is such a nonsense headline. It is immensely clear that most (all?) countries in the world are soon going to require proof of covid vaccine before they'll even consider letting a person travel to their country. If you find this hard to believe, this system already works today, very well. It's already the case for many, many countries in Africa - you can't get a visa, and the airlines won't let you on a plane unless you have proof of Yellow Fever vaccine. You also can't cross land borders. It even goes a step further - when entering a country like Australia they specifically ask if you've been to <given African countries> in the last 90 days, and they won't even let you into Australia if you have not had the Yellow Fever Vaccine. If you're wondering why the airlines enforce this, it's the same reason they enforce visas. The governments cleverly decided to make airlines foot the bill for anyone that must be sent back, therefore airlines are strict about not allowing anyone to board who they know would be denied entry. It works very well, and has done for decades. From my experience travelling the world, it's immensely clear this will soon be the requirement to fly essentially anywhere in the world - proof of Covid vaccine and possibly a recent negative test and possibly a short quarantine on arrival and even another test in a few days. (like Iceland now). This will be an interesting way to "force" citizens to get a vaccine. Your own government probably won't be able to (human rights and all), but foreign governments will force you to, if you desire to ever leave your own country.
- uniqueid 6y agoYour own government probably won't be able to (human rights and all) I can't see many high courts interpreting 'human rights' like that — not if there's a lethal enough virus, at any rate.
- grecy 6y agoI'd be very curious to learn of any country that is going to forcibly administer vaccines. Australia have tried for years, and the best they can do is tax breaks if you do get vaccinated, and barring kids from school and daycare if they're not. (NOTE: I am NOT anti-vaccine, and I will be getting it as soon as I'm able. I just don't think it's possible for a country to physically force citizens to get a needle against their will. I've certainly never heard of it)
- jimbob45 6y agoLet the country that has not screwed up at one point during this pandemic cast the first stone. Seems like every country is trying to point the finger at every other country to cover their own flaws.
- qndreoi 6y agoVietnam and New Zeeland have had no flaws. They don't preach, but could be an excellent example of how to do right. https://ourworldindata.org/covid-exemplar-vietnam-2020 https://ourworldindata.org/covid-exemplar-vietnam-2020
- kgin 6y agoAnd yet there are nonzero number of countries that have had only the smallest number of deaths and controlled community spread almost entirely during this entire pandemic. It doesn't do any good to blame, but we should all be copying as closely as possible what has let some countries emerge unscathed.
- dominotw 6y agoI am still perplexed by the fact that no one is holding China accountable. How is this possible? Is it because we don't want to mess with the dope dealer that has us hooked on cheap junk. How can Peter Daszak be on who commission given his deep ties with the wuhan lab. Why does no one care. what am i missing here.
- endisneigh 6y agoIn what way should China be held accountable in your view?
- dominotw 6y agoFor the cover up and not letting WHO investigate what happened https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/14/who-investigator-claims-china-refused-to-hand-over-key-covid-information https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/14/who-investigat... How is this not a big deal.
- Guest42 6y agoI read it more as a how rather than a why.
- gher-shyu3i 6y agoRefuse to do any more business with them. Cut them off economically, cut trade routes and flights.
- aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA 6y agoIs that all?
- Guest42 6y agoIt seems as though economic sanctions are the modern way of holding countries accountable. This can be done to the country being held accountable or to their trading partners.
- 29athrowaway 6y agoLula and Dilma certainly were criminals, but that doesn't make Bolsonaro right. Partisan mentality is a logical fallacy. It's divide and conquer. Keep people distracted in an infinite tug-of-war while some people collude and benefit. It's not left vs right, it's up vs down.
- lucas_h 6y agoThey were not criminals. Dilma did not commit a single crime, and Lula's trials were completely fabricated. Even if they were, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't let their country in this situation.
- 29athrowaway 6y agoYour perspective explains why a country with a huge potential such as Brazil is where it is right now.
- giacaglia 6y agoLol what a terrible take. People that know Brazil, know that covid is being managed by each state and that the left-leaning states that have the hardest lockdowns. The number of covid deaths have "declined" significantly now that a new State of Health requires that the reported deaths have an identity attached to each death Adding to that, the worst state in covid cases and deaths, São Paulo, is lead by a left leaning politician that is leading the country with the hardest lockdown Sweden has been one of the countries that has the least amount of covid cases in the world and has no lockdown. This article is utter nonsense and pure propaganda. The economist should be ashamed of publishing this
- lucas_h 6y agoBolsonaro is clearly an idiot, he has refused to buy vaccines many times, and we only have the coronavac vaccine because of the state of São Paulo. Stop being delusional.
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- giacaglia 6y agoWow. That is an amazing argument. Wow. Such a person is an idiot and the worst state in covid cases is the best....
- ccortes 6y ago> Adding to that, the worst state in covid cases and deaths, São Paulo, is lead by a left leaning politician that is leading the country with the hardest lockdown Isn't São Paulo the biggest state in Brazil by far? How is it surprising it has the worst numbers? > Sweden has been one of the countries that has the least amount of covid cases in the world and has no lockdown. Now compare Sweden with the other nordic countries
- lokedhs 6y agoWhat? Sweden has had 780k cases (10 million population). Vietnam had 2500 cases with 96 million population. Or let's compare with something closer, Norway which is right next to Sweden: 91k cases (5 million population).
- rodolphoarruda 6y agoBlaming Bolsonaro alone is like blaming the scarecrow for the problems in the farm. Brazil is a very complex society that suffered for 3 decades with systemic corruption, poor education and a very problematic public health system. Ask any low-middle class brazilian -- me -- what he thinks about public ICUs and the answer will be: "There is no such thing". Brazil is not a developed country doing bad in covid because of its president, rather, it is a poor developing country struggling to survive covid in spite of any president.
- mrkramer 6y agoPublic opinion is that US handled pandemic bad but US is the most developed country in the world. There is no real public health system in US because health system is largely based on robust private health care sector. It seems like China handled the best this pandemic so we all should ask them how they did it. We should send our health experts to China so they can learn something.
- rodolphoarruda 6y agoI don't think there is much room for the public opinion or the press to really inform the rest of the world about what's going on in China. We as outsiders make our opinion out of sheer inference when talking about China and the pandemic.
- lokedhs 6y agoThis is an honest question: by what standard is the US "the most developed country in the world"? The US indeed number one in several categories, but how do you define "development" such that the US is on top?