5 ms·

This is probably gonna get messy once the top of CCP see this.

ComputerGuru 6y ago
They already did and it already has. (This isn’t new.)
ohazi 6y ago
This wouldn't have been published unless that was an explicit goal. But Nike's strategy doesn't seem particularly effective, and the outcome is predictable. Top CCP brass will be outraged at the insinuation that anything disreputable is going on, will drone on about "how dare Nike try to shame the honorable reputation of the virtuous and hard-working and well-meaning and morally super great Chinese people," will probably accuse Nike of anti-Chinese racism, and then will try to "Cancel Nike" within China and in their New Silk Road sphere of influence (i.e. Economic Sanctions with Chinese Characteristics). You can't call out a bully that obsesses over appearances and feigns outrage like this. If you've ever had the misfortune of working with someone like this, you'll know that calling bullshit on them doesn't work. They'll take offense, they'll throw a fit, they'll sabotage and self destruct. It's juvenile and exhausting, but they just can't accept that you're not buying their crap. It's the same story here. Antagonizing doesn't work. We need to find another way to exert pressure on China and the CCP that doesn't immediately trigger this "embarrassed and outraged" response. At work, you might pretend to be this bully's friend, feed them a different idea, convince them that it's their idea, let them champion this idea, make a big show of everybody praising them for how brilliant it is, etc. (and then look for a new job, because that's fucking exhausting too). The stakes are really high here. A bully like this at work that has power and can't be fired can destroy the company, but this bully has nukes and wants to invade Taiwan. If they really start to feel like the entire world is trying to shame them, it's going to end in disaster.
- indigochill 6y ago
  > ...you might pretend to be this bully's friend, feed them a different idea, convince them that it's their idea... I thought I'd read somewhere (but can't find the source now) that around the Cold War or thereabouts, trade with China was seen as a way of "exporting capitalism" to undermine support for communism there. If so, that... hasn't worked. I'm not convinced the west actually has any leverage on China. They own the US's debt, they have access to rare earth metals necessary for computer manufacture, and they're the backbone of worldwide manufacturing. Any pressure applied (trade sanctions?) will just come back the other direction (oh no, actually we need that trade to maintain our way of life).
  - dnautics 6y ago
    > They own the US's debt Currently the world leader in US debt holding is not china, but japan. > actually we need that trade to maintain our way of life Currently the number 1 trading partner with the US is Mexico, not china. The US economy is overwhelmingly domestic, too with something like 10% via foreign trade. And china's labor costs no longer make it competitive in terms of "making the average us resident's prices low". The place that will get screwed is europe, which DOES do a ton of trade with China, as we will see in the upcoming months with the closure of the suez (most us trade does not use the suez, only about 10% of oil from saudia arabia, and most us oil production has shifted to domestic, IIRC it's like 5% foreign or something like that)
  - ohazi 6y ago
    > If so, that... hasn't worked. Yeah, I think the "pretend you're on their side" strategy might work once or twice before they're onto you, so if you can't get them permanently out of the way by then, you're finished. > I'm not convinced the west actually has any leverage on China. Unfortunately, I think I agree. I'm not convinced the debt thing matters very much, but as things stand, we are hosed without China's manufacturing base, and double plus hosed if TSMC is captured or destroyed as a result of a Taiwan attack.
  - NicoJuicy 6y ago
    China has been chosen as the manufacturer of the western world. While it's a big thing they need, I'm not convinced that it is impossible to shift a lot of that influence to India. Who would probably make a better partner ( not sure). Other than that, I don't see much options.
  - plorkyeran 6y ago
    > I thought I'd read somewhere (but can't find the source now) that around the Cold War or thereabouts, trade with China was seen as a way of "exporting capitalism" to undermine support for communism there. If so, that... hasn't worked. Hasn't it? It has not succeeded in making China an ally, but modern China is communist in name only.
- mycologos 6y ago
  > Top CCP brass will be outraged at the insinuation that anything disreputable is going on, will drone on about "how dare Nike try to shame the honorable reputation of the virtuous and hard-working and well-meaning and morally super great Chinese people," Tangential, but can any native Mandarin speaker chime in on whether the translations of CCP communications -- which, like the parent comment's hypothetical example, often read with the screechy yet formal outrage of, like, the king's devoted manservant -- are actually accurate? The only other thing I can think of like that is communications from North Korea. I have to imagine it's deliberate on somebody's part.
  - magicsmoke 6y ago
    Part of it might just be that the CCP's translators don't have a good grasp of English and end up picking unfortunate translations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurting_the_feelings_of_the_Chinese_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurting_the_feelings_of_the_Ch... This is better translated as "damaged how the Chinese people feel about..." but instead comes off as the Chinese people having the emotional tolerance of a grade schooler. Unfortunately, it seems it was actually first used by state media in 1959 instead of originating from a foreign translation of the Chinese statement.
    - ohazi 6y ago
      Wow, your translation is enlightening... Thanks! I find it hilarious that this phrase, of all things, has a Wikipedia article -- I guess that just illustrates how notably ridiculous it sounds outside of China. I wonder how much damage that disconnect has caused over the years.
  - ksec 6y ago
    >are actually accurate? They are mostly accurate. If not toned down in the translation. People on different forums such as reddit has repeatedly asked the question, why all these passive aggressiveness, did the translator do their job. The answer is they did.

They already did and it already has. (This isn’t new.)

This wouldn't have been published unless that was an explicit goal. But Nike's strategy doesn't seem particularly effective, and the outcome is predictable. Top CCP brass will be outraged at the insinuation that anything disreputable is going on, will drone on about "how dare Nike try to shame the honorable reputation of the virtuous and hard-working and well-meaning and morally super great Chinese people," will probably accuse Nike of anti-Chinese racism, and then will try to "Cancel Nike" within China and in their New Silk Road sphere of influence (i.e. Economic Sanctions with Chinese Characteristics). You can't call out a bully that obsesses over appearances and feigns outrage like this. If you've ever had the misfortune of working with someone like this, you'll know that calling bullshit on them doesn't work. They'll take offense, they'll throw a fit, they'll sabotage and self destruct. It's juvenile and exhausting, but they just can't accept that you're not buying their crap. It's the same story here. Antagonizing doesn't work. We need to find another way to exert pressure on China and the CCP that doesn't immediately trigger this "embarrassed and outraged" response. At work, you might pretend to be this bully's friend, feed them a different idea, convince them that it's their idea, let them champion this idea, make a big show of everybody praising them for how brilliant it is, etc. (and then look for a new job, because that's fucking exhausting too). The stakes are really high here. A bully like this at work that has power and can't be fired can destroy the company, but this bully has nukes and wants to invade Taiwan. If they really start to feel like the entire world is trying to shame them, it's going to end in disaster.

indigochill 6y ago
> ...you might pretend to be this bully's friend, feed them a different idea, convince them that it's their idea... I thought I'd read somewhere (but can't find the source now) that around the Cold War or thereabouts, trade with China was seen as a way of "exporting capitalism" to undermine support for communism there. If so, that... hasn't worked. I'm not convinced the west actually has any leverage on China. They own the US's debt, they have access to rare earth metals necessary for computer manufacture, and they're the backbone of worldwide manufacturing. Any pressure applied (trade sanctions?) will just come back the other direction (oh no, actually we need that trade to maintain our way of life).
- dnautics 6y ago
  > They own the US's debt Currently the world leader in US debt holding is not china, but japan. > actually we need that trade to maintain our way of life Currently the number 1 trading partner with the US is Mexico, not china. The US economy is overwhelmingly domestic, too with something like 10% via foreign trade. And china's labor costs no longer make it competitive in terms of "making the average us resident's prices low". The place that will get screwed is europe, which DOES do a ton of trade with China, as we will see in the upcoming months with the closure of the suez (most us trade does not use the suez, only about 10% of oil from saudia arabia, and most us oil production has shifted to domestic, IIRC it's like 5% foreign or something like that)
- ohazi 6y ago
  > If so, that... hasn't worked. Yeah, I think the "pretend you're on their side" strategy might work once or twice before they're onto you, so if you can't get them permanently out of the way by then, you're finished. > I'm not convinced the west actually has any leverage on China. Unfortunately, I think I agree. I'm not convinced the debt thing matters very much, but as things stand, we are hosed without China's manufacturing base, and double plus hosed if TSMC is captured or destroyed as a result of a Taiwan attack.
- NicoJuicy 6y ago
  China has been chosen as the manufacturer of the western world. While it's a big thing they need, I'm not convinced that it is impossible to shift a lot of that influence to India. Who would probably make a better partner ( not sure). Other than that, I don't see much options.
- plorkyeran 6y ago
  > I thought I'd read somewhere (but can't find the source now) that around the Cold War or thereabouts, trade with China was seen as a way of "exporting capitalism" to undermine support for communism there. If so, that... hasn't worked. Hasn't it? It has not succeeded in making China an ally, but modern China is communist in name only.
mycologos 6y ago
> Top CCP brass will be outraged at the insinuation that anything disreputable is going on, will drone on about "how dare Nike try to shame the honorable reputation of the virtuous and hard-working and well-meaning and morally super great Chinese people," Tangential, but can any native Mandarin speaker chime in on whether the translations of CCP communications -- which, like the parent comment's hypothetical example, often read with the screechy yet formal outrage of, like, the king's devoted manservant -- are actually accurate? The only other thing I can think of like that is communications from North Korea. I have to imagine it's deliberate on somebody's part.
- magicsmoke 6y ago
  Part of it might just be that the CCP's translators don't have a good grasp of English and end up picking unfortunate translations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurting_the_feelings_of_the_Chinese_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurting_the_feelings_of_the_Ch... This is better translated as "damaged how the Chinese people feel about..." but instead comes off as the Chinese people having the emotional tolerance of a grade schooler. Unfortunately, it seems it was actually first used by state media in 1959 instead of originating from a foreign translation of the Chinese statement.
  - ohazi 6y ago
    Wow, your translation is enlightening... Thanks! I find it hilarious that this phrase, of all things, has a Wikipedia article -- I guess that just illustrates how notably ridiculous it sounds outside of China. I wonder how much damage that disconnect has caused over the years.
- ksec 6y ago
  >are actually accurate? They are mostly accurate. If not toned down in the translation. People on different forums such as reddit has repeatedly asked the question, why all these passive aggressiveness, did the translator do their job. The answer is they did.