4 ms·

Not really though. Libraries have internet access and are free to use. The failsafe is "find ways to give everyone internet access", which I think we've alread

Not really though. Libraries have internet access and are free to use. The failsafe is "find ways to give everyone internet access", which I think we've already done. Libraries, public wifi APs, cheap 4G, dirt cheap internet capable devices, etc.

bombcar 6y ago
Companies can get away with serving 90% of the market or less, but places like the DMV and other government divisions have to serve 100% of the people - including those who even when presented with a library computer are unable to utilize it effectively. Foisting support costs off to libraries is another example of the tragedy of the commons.
- fastball 6y ago
  What about people who don't know how to read? Are they served by all government services? No idea how you think this is a tragedy of the commons situation. It is definitely better to digitize everything and serve the 0.1% (certainly not anywhere close to 10%) with additional support that helps them use the digital service, rather than having non-digital fallbacks for significantly more expense.
  - kfarr 6y ago
    Yeah I agree libraries are actually the perfect solution for this, not a tragedy. I'm impressed recently with the relevance of libraries doing things exactly like this -- helping the masses access knowledge -- despite the shift away from print.
    - jfk13 6y ago
      Does every remote rural hamlet have a library? How far is it reasonable to expect someone to travel in order to access this solution?
      - fastball 6y ago
        If you're so rural you can't access a library, how were you using a pre-internet service in the first place? Internet services becomes more of a win if you're remote, not less so, espescially with things like Starlink coming online.
        kevingadd 6y ago
        Mail service and telephone service are effectively universal, so a job application via the mail or the phone is within reach of basically everyone. Having a handset and a phone line is also much cheaper than owning even a second-hand smartphone (at least a decent cellular plan with data isn't very expensive anymore). A deaf person could handle applying by phone via a relay service (though these days they probably can't because relay services are abused by malicious parties and everyone hangs up on them). Paper applications were probably very tough for blind people though, I'm not sure what the solution was... the internet is likely better there, if you're lucky and the job application website is actually accessible. I lived in a very rural area for about 50% of my childhood - we had no fire department, we relied on a well for water, our town's official population was in the hundreds, etc. If we wanted to get on the internet we had to do it at around 38400 and random packets would get corrupted because the lines were old and low-quality (I wrote my own parity tool in VB6 so that I could download a file 3-4 times and produce a not-corrupted version). Despite that, if I wanted to call someone up on the phone to speak with them or send a letter, that was just as easy and effective as it was when I lived in the suburbs. When we eventually managed to get slow DSL years later it was INCREDIBLY expensive because in rural areas if you're lucky enough to have service at all the monopolist who offers it knows they can charge as much as they want.
        jfk13 6y ago
        Where I live, at least, mailboxes are a lot more widespread than libraries. To send a form by mail, I just have to walk a couple hundred yards.
      - darkerside 6y ago
        A library is not a building. What if it's cheaper to make it so people can call and make an appointment with a librarian, who will come to your house and assist you with your government service needs?
aimor 6y ago
As a part of the pandemic libraries in my area are closed. This failsafe has also failed. I think you’re right that there should be a variety of redundant options to better cover people.
- hedora 6y ago
  Around here, libraries lend out 4g access points and chrome books, fwiw.

bombcar 6y ago

Companies can get away with serving 90% of the market or less, but places like the DMV and other government divisions have to serve 100% of the people - including those who even when presented with a library computer are unable to utilize it effectively. Foisting support costs off to libraries is another example of the tragedy of the commons.

fastball 6y ago
What about people who don't know how to read? Are they served by all government services? No idea how you think this is a tragedy of the commons situation. It is definitely better to digitize everything and serve the 0.1% (certainly not anywhere close to 10%) with additional support that helps them use the digital service, rather than having non-digital fallbacks for significantly more expense.
- kfarr 6y ago
  Yeah I agree libraries are actually the perfect solution for this, not a tragedy. I'm impressed recently with the relevance of libraries doing things exactly like this -- helping the masses access knowledge -- despite the shift away from print.
  - jfk13 6y ago
    Does every remote rural hamlet have a library? How far is it reasonable to expect someone to travel in order to access this solution?
    - fastball 6y ago
      If you're so rural you can't access a library, how were you using a pre-internet service in the first place? Internet services becomes more of a win if you're remote, not less so, espescially with things like Starlink coming online.
      - kevingadd 6y ago
        Mail service and telephone service are effectively universal, so a job application via the mail or the phone is within reach of basically everyone. Having a handset and a phone line is also much cheaper than owning even a second-hand smartphone (at least a decent cellular plan with data isn't very expensive anymore). A deaf person could handle applying by phone via a relay service (though these days they probably can't because relay services are abused by malicious parties and everyone hangs up on them). Paper applications were probably very tough for blind people though, I'm not sure what the solution was... the internet is likely better there, if you're lucky and the job application website is actually accessible. I lived in a very rural area for about 50% of my childhood - we had no fire department, we relied on a well for water, our town's official population was in the hundreds, etc. If we wanted to get on the internet we had to do it at around 38400 and random packets would get corrupted because the lines were old and low-quality (I wrote my own parity tool in VB6 so that I could download a file 3-4 times and produce a not-corrupted version). Despite that, if I wanted to call someone up on the phone to speak with them or send a letter, that was just as easy and effective as it was when I lived in the suburbs. When we eventually managed to get slow DSL years later it was INCREDIBLY expensive because in rural areas if you're lucky enough to have service at all the monopolist who offers it knows they can charge as much as they want.
      - jfk13 6y ago
        Where I live, at least, mailboxes are a lot more widespread than libraries. To send a form by mail, I just have to walk a couple hundred yards.
    - darkerside 6y ago
      A library is not a building. What if it's cheaper to make it so people can call and make an appointment with a librarian, who will come to your house and assist you with your government service needs?

aimor 6y ago

As a part of the pandemic libraries in my area are closed. This failsafe has also failed. I think you’re right that there should be a variety of redundant options to better cover people.

hedora 6y ago
Around here, libraries lend out 4g access points and chrome books, fwiw.